Painted SEAT!!!

[S&S Detailing]

So i detailed a referrals 05 Lincoln LS this weekend, the guy was a germa-phobe and he had just purchased the car, wanted it completely cleaned, scrubbed down. i went over all the vinyl with a baby shampoo/water mixture and a toothbrush (guy hates cleaning product smell, i also deionized the car) then i proceeded to do the leather seats and the drivers seat had a lovely coating of interior paint, of course after i'd started i had to finish the job.There were two wear spots (ridiculous for a car with 44K) When i returned the car he was very happy but of course noticed the wearing on his drivers seat that wasnt there before. I told him to go back to the dealership and demand a new seat, the car only has 44K on it. It was just frustrating, i felt bad for the guy, he paid 15,000 for the car and as i work at a dealership as well i have seen these shady things go down.

Another concern was water spotting on the windows, i didnt have any product to remove it, tried using steel wool with no luck, anyone have any good suggestions, ive used a "water spot remover" product that was basically Hydrochloric acid, any suggestions?

Has anyone else dealt with a painted seat accidental removal? What did you end up doing? I may have to write the dealership a letter explaining what i did, the customer hasnt talked to them yet.

In the end though the guy seemed happier that the paint was off the seat, when i began he complained of a sticky sensation on his seat, clear what it was now.

[wagonproject]

BMW 323i saved.

[S&S Detailing]

That looks great, but that's not what the guy wanted, wanted clean, not painted over

[howareb]

Judy B (gives great info on leather) will probably weigh in here. However once the leather has worn there is not much else that you can do to improve it other than to re-dye the leather. Now there is a big difference between dye and paint. If done properly a seat that is correctly dyed like in the "BMW 323i saved" thread, is very hard to tell the differnce between the facotry (which your customer calls clean) and a repaired seat. The dye in most cases will "absorb" into properly prepped leather whereas, paint will just sit on top.

Most dealers will try to use paint instead of dye, which is what most llikely happened to your customer. Just remember that there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. Your customer has experienced the wrong way which you could easily (if you wanted to) make right by using the correct products to correct the dealers mistake, a dye. Then he could have clean, not painted over seats that look near new again.

[S&S Detailing]

The thing i dont like about the painted and even dyed seats like the BMW had is the shiny glimmer they have to them, not the clean dull look

[Roger Koh]

Originally Posted by S&S Detailing

In the end though the guy seemed happier that the paint was off the seat, when i began he complained of a sticky sensation on his seat, clear what it was now.

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This sticky sensation is a pH related phenomena.

With a Flat Glass pH Meter you will read that this sticky area pH value will be higher than the non-sticky area.

If the reading is above pH 7, then it is due to alkaline exposure that needs to be neutralized.

Otherwise this sticky sensation may worsen to a slimy sensation to a gummy sensation.

Use a pH 2.0 leather acidifier, dwell and wipe away to return the leather to a healthy squeak.


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
IICRC #942
Leather Care Technician
Master Textile Cleaner
Master Fire & Smoke Restorer
Journeyman Water Restorer
Since 1973

[Roger Koh]

Originally Posted by S&S Detailing

The thing i dont like about the painted and even dyed seats like the BMW had is the shiny glimmer they have to them, not the clean dull look

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Yes it looks “Plastiky” that devalues the leather.

The thicker the paint the more unnatural the leather looks – the more likely to crack.

Three important considerations when using pigment is to be aware of:

1. Stretchability
2. Compressibility
3. Flexibility

The quality of the pigment besides the color is the binder.

Test it out the difference from different brands available.

When use original matching leather finishes – the choice is as good as half done.

There are different qualities of pigment finishes that goes to different Auto Seats.

1. Non-absorbent Pigment uses the Standard-Pigment.
2. Semi-absorbent Pigment uses the Micro-Pigment.
3. Absorbent Pigment uses the Napa-Pigment.

As for the BMW I would recommend using Micro-Pigment with a Matte finish.



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[howareb]

Originally Posted by Roger Koh

=============



Yes it looks “Plastiky” that devalues the leather.

The thicker the paint the more unnatural the leather looks – the more likely to crack.

Three important considerations when using pigment is to be aware of:

1. Stretchability
2. Compressibility
3. Flexibility

The quality of the pigment besides the color is the binder.

Test it out the difference from different brands available.

When use original matching leather finishes – the choice is as good as half done.

There are different qualities of pigment finishes that goes to different Auto Seats.

1. Non-absorbent Pigment uses the Standard-Pigment.
2. Semi-absorbent Pigment uses the Micro-Pigment.
3. Absorbent Pigment uses the Napa-Pigment.

As for the BMW I would recommend using Micro-Pigment with a Matte finish.



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

That is good information that people often overlook.

I personally have always used Leather Master Dyes and have had great success with them. As far as the “Plastiky" look this can be controled by the amount like Roger is pointing out. Multiple thin even coats will do the trick better than one thick coat. It does take some practice but it can be made to look close to original as long as you have the right kind of dye.

[Roger Koh]

Originally Posted by howareb

It does take some practice but it can be made to look close to original as long as you have the right kind of dye.

==========






If you are talking of dyes – it goes only to the aniline leathers like the Ford – King Ranch.

Then again you have to dye matching color but how about knowing the dyestuff characteristic.

Thus 3 choices:

1. Aniline Pure (Transparent Penetrating Dyestuff)
2. Aniline Transparent (Transparent Coating Dyestuff)
3. Aniline Translucent (Translucent Coating Dyestuff)

How do you want and how do you decide if you need one or a combination of the following:

1. Penetrating
2. Coating
3. Transparency
4. Translucency

To match the severity of color loss, stains, repairs, darkening effect to bring out the best to its originality.


When I ask for referral services from a leather store years back, the proprietor ask me bluntly if I am a “Leather Butcher”, I was red faced and proof him wrong.


Hope we don’t fall into this “Leather Butcher” category!


I hope my input makes you think!


Seek the best system available and practice before you sell your leather services.



Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[Quality Leather]

Most of the guys doing dealerships are using crap. The dealerships don't want to pay anything, so they get what they deserve. As for the Lincoln, it is best to just start from scratch.

On that BMW saved thread, the OP was using SEM. Sorry, but that is about the worst crap in the industry. It will start to microfracture in no time (imagine the small cracks in a broken windshield). On the gloss, that is determined by adjusting your gloss ratio. My supplier has gloss from patent leather to very dull.

[Jakerooni]

Man you guys are out there... OK the "Shine" you guys speak of on there was Hyperdressing applied after the dye and before I wiped it down. The leather was soft when finished. and SEM dye may not be the best but it is leather "Dye" not friggin paint like what was on there. The leather was soft and it worked out great. Sorry but at the time I did not have a HPLV gun with pigment dyes to color match. I've actually learned quite alot since I did that detail but lets call a spade a spade and quit trying to tear apart what was a great save on a dealer hack job. I'm so very glad we have so many leather "Experts" on this site now... Where the heck were you guys back when I was asking questions about this?

To the OP.. what I did was what my client wanted me to do. Your client should have a new seat put in with only have 44k on it. Seems a bit ridiculous for a seat to wear out that quickly. Hopefully they understood the mess you cleaned off.

[S&S Detailing]

Absolutely, and that's what i told him

If it was me i would throw a fit because the car was sold to me with a perfect seat, not a painted seat. And you could definitely tell it was a different shade too, not a quality job.

I appreciate the input everyone

Oh and as far as the hard mineral water spots are concerned on his windows, has anyone used this product? Or are most of these hardcore products useful

Amazon.com: Meguiar's M4716 Hard Water Spot Remover: Automotive

Thanks