For all you TOUCHLESS washers out there

[proman3998]

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

I think its his least favorite because it doesnt release dirt/grime as well as the other sealants. (I thought I saw him mention that before)

UPGP is awesome at releasing grime. Nothing sticks to that stuff. Just using a regular water hose I can get the car 95% dirt free.

sorry, im not sure what upgp is? as for the zaino, how much will the dirt hang on to it? do you think a touchless wash is practical with zaino?

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

I think its his least favorite because it doesnt release dirt/grime as well as the other sealants. (I thought I saw him mention that before)

UPGP is awesome at releasing grime. Nothing sticks to that stuff. Just using a regular water hose I can get the car 95% dirt free.

Yes, that's right...

Anytime I find myself in the position of saying anything potentially negative about Zaino, it makes me nervous. Zainoites can be some of the most fanatical, um, "enthusiastic" people I've ever discussed anything with on the internet. So in an attempt to keep them appeased, I do like to point out the positives of the product first. Zaino is one of the best *looking* sealants on the market. It *looks* great, and it *lasts a long time*. But that is all it does. When it comes to protecting your car from dirt, water spots, etc. it falls flat. I used Zaino for years, and in fact I do still use it. Some of their products are still my go-to's even.

And I'm not saying that Zaino won't come clean when you wash it, I'm saying that it requires more mechanical energy (more mechanical energy than a pressure washer is capable of applying) in order to get dirt off of Zaino than other, easier-to-clean sealants. A wash mitt will clean up a Zaino'd car toot sweet, but I'd rather eat lint than use a wash mitt to wash a car on a regular basis.

Most people that have problems getting good touch free results give up way too soon; it just takes some experimentation with what LSP is going to work for you. The soap is pretty much already decided: grab some CG's Citrus Wash N Gloss. It has some of the best chemical cleaning abilities around in a car soap that is still gentle enough to leave your LSP intact. (Although I am experimenting with this quite a bit right now... I'm formulating my own car soap that will hopefully boost the cleaning power of CWNG without stripping the LSP.)

It really is fun to experiment around with stuff to find a combination that works well for your touch free washes.

Some other stuff to think about, regarding all these touch free shenanigans...

Even if you aren't able to get your car completely clean by using your touch free method, you *are* removing * a lot* of abrasives by first using a touch free method, then following up with whatever other method you want to get your car completely clean. All those abrasives that were previously on your car are now gone for your later, touch-based wash, and can't swirl your paint. So preceding your regular wash process with a touch free wash will certainly lower the amount of wash based marring you're going to get with your regular regimen.

I try to go in increasing levels of aggressiveness, to get the least amount of marring for each bit of contamination removed:

1. Touch free, then stop if I'm satisfied. If not, then:

2. Layer of foam, BHB in soap bucket, gently use BHB on entire car. Stop if clean. If not, then:

3. ONR wash with Eurow Shag MF's. Whatever is left on the paint by this time is very, very small, and when combined with ONR's voodoo powers, you'll get little (if any) marring.

Using the above three steps, I'm usually able to take a car that has zero LSP on it and go from filthy dirty to completely clean with *very little* marring. Lot's of guys would just skip steps one and two and go straight to the ONR, and that's cool, too. Lot's of different ways to do stuff, for sure. But IMO, you are least likely to get any marring by taking the time to do the three steps.

The LSP you have on your car is a very, very important choice. It determines exactly how much kinetic energy is going to be required to remove every single molecule of dirt that gets on your car. And it is this amount of kinetic energy that is going to determine how much marring that molecule of dirt is going to cause to your car when it is removed. If you can get an LSP that will let go of dirt with nothing more than an HP spray of water, you're in great shape. Next best would be an LSP that comes completely clean with the flick of a BHB bristle. Last, would be one that requires you smash that dirt particle against the clear coat with a wash mitt and scrub it like a piece of sand paper.

LPS's vary *greatly* in their abilities to release contamination. IMO, it's worth investing good, solid amounts of cash in finding some that work for you.

Well, so much for Supe's caffeinated rant of the day. I'm off to detail some cars.....

[efnfast]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

3. ONR wash with Eurow Shag MF's. Whatever is left on the paint by this time is very, very small, and when combined with ONR's voodoo powers, you'll get little (if any) marring.

ONR as #3; hmmmm, that's it, ONR fanatics attack!


Btw, I know you really like the BHBs, but how can you safely put them ahead of ONR+mf. Atleast with the ONR+mf you can go panel by panel and examine your cloth - if it has any dirt on it, stick it in the washing solution and rub it out then and there and the cloth is clean. With a brush you really can't see if dirt is adhered to it.......

[proman3998]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Yes, that's right...

Anytime I find myself in the position of saying anything potentially negative about Zaino, it makes me nervous. Zainoites can be some of the most fanatical, um, "enthusiastic" people I've ever discussed anything with on the internet. So in an attempt to keep them appeased, I do like to point out the positives of the product first. Zaino is one of the best *looking* sealants on the market. It *looks* great, and it *lasts a long time*. But that is all it does. When it comes to protecting your car from dirt, water spots, etc. it falls flat. I used Zaino for years, and in fact I do still use it. Some of their products are still my go-to's even.

And I'm not saying that Zaino won't come clean when you wash it, I'm saying that it requires more mechanical energy (more mechanical energy than a pressure washer is capable of applying) in order to get dirt off of Zaino than other, easier-to-clean sealants. A wash mitt will clean up a Zaino'd car toot sweet, but I'd rather eat lint than use a wash mitt to wash a car on a regular basis.

Most people that have problems getting good touch free results give up way too soon; it just takes some experimentation with what LSP is going to work for you. The soap is pretty much already decided: grab some CG's Citrus Wash N Gloss. It has some of the best chemical cleaning abilities around in a car soap that is still gentle enough to leave your LSP intact. (Although I am experimenting with this quite a bit right now... I'm formulating my own car soap that will hopefully boost the cleaning power of CWNG without stripping the LSP.)

It really is fun to experiment around with stuff to find a combination that works well for your touch free washes.

Some other stuff to think about, regarding all these touch free shenanigans...

Even if you aren't able to get your car completely clean by using your touch free method, you *are* removing * a lot* of abrasives by first using a touch free method, then following up with whatever other method you want to get your car completely clean. All those abrasives that were previously on your car are now gone for your later, touch-based wash, and can't swirl your paint. So preceding your regular wash process with a touch free wash will certainly lower the amount of wash based marring you're going to get with your regular regimen.

I try to go in increasing levels of aggressiveness, to get the least amount of marring for each bit of contamination removed:

1. Touch free, then stop if I'm satisfied. If not, then:

2. Layer of foam, BHB in soap bucket, gently use BHB on entire car. Stop if clean. If not, then:

3. ONR wash with Eurow Shag MF's. Whatever is left on the paint by this time is very, very small, and when combined with ONR's voodoo powers, you'll get little (if any) marring.

Using the above three steps, I'm usually able to take a car that has zero LSP on it and go from filthy dirty to completely clean with *very little* marring. Lot's of guys would just skip steps one and two and go straight to the ONR, and that's cool, too. Lot's of different ways to do stuff, for sure. But IMO, you are least likely to get any marring by taking the time to do the three steps.

The LSP you have on your car is a very, very important choice. It determines exactly how much kinetic energy is going to be required to remove every single molecule of dirt that gets on your car. And it is this amount of kinetic energy that is going to determine how much marring that molecule of dirt is going to cause to your car when it is removed. If you can get an LSP that will let go of dirt with nothing more than an HP spray of water, you're in great shape. Next best would be an LSP that comes completely clean with the flick of a BHB bristle. Last, would be one that requires you smash that dirt particle against the clear coat with a wash mitt and scrub it like a piece of sand paper.

LPS's vary *greatly* in their abilities to release contamination. IMO, it's worth investing good, solid amounts of cash in finding some that work for you.

Well, so much for Supe's caffeinated rant of the day. I'm off to detail some cars.....

since upgp (ultima paint guard plus) seams to be the sealant of choice, can i go over my zaino with it and get the best of both worlds? what do you think?

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by efnfast

ONR as #3; hmmmm, that's it, ONR fanatics attack!


Btw, I know you really like the BHBs, but how can you safely put them ahead of ONR+mf. Atleast with the ONR+mf you can go panel by panel and examine your cloth - if it has any dirt on it, stick it in the washing solution and rub it out then and there and the cloth is clean. With a brush you really can't see if dirt is adhered to it.......

A long bristeled BHB "flicks" stuff off the paint like a broom, and if you keep the water flowing, it never gets a chance to stick to the bristles, especially if you keep dunking/rinsing it as often as you should. Properly used, a BHB is darn near as mar-free as not touching the paint.

Originally Posted by proman3998

since upgp (ultima paint guard plus) seams to be the sealant of choice, can i go over my zaino with it and get the best of both worlds? what do you think?

I dunno.. never tried it. The UPGP (or whatever) *might* have a hard time adhering to the Zaino. I'm not really much of a "topper"; I tend to use LSP's by themselves. Give it a shot!

[efnfast]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

A long bristeled BHB "flicks" stuff off the paint like a broom, and if you keep the water flowing, it never gets a chance to stick to the bristles, especially if you keep dunking/rinsing it as often as you should. Properly used, a BHB is darn near as mar-free as not touching the paint.

Do you a link to where you describe your washing technique? I'd be curous to read it - I searched, but didn't find anything on the top (not exactly going to spend several hours searching for it, hehe =) )

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by efnfast

Do you a link to where you describe your washing technique? I'd be curous to read it - I searched, but didn't find anything on the top (not exactly going to spend several hours searching for it, hehe =) )

I'd have to do the same thing, actually.

[efnfast]

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

I'd have to do the same thing, actually.

You didn't book-mark it

[Accumulator]

Oh, you guys.....you get me thinking how I could maybe put up some huge "shower curtains" and start PWing

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

A long bristeled BHB "flicks" stuff off the paint like a broom, and if you keep the water flowing, it never gets a chance to stick to the bristles, especially if you keep dunking/rinsing it as often as you should. Properly used, a BHB is darn near as mar-free as not touching the paint...

It's so gentle it doesn't even hurt the dirt Hence SuperBee364's prewash with the PW. And the frequent need for some kind of more-mechanical follow-up wash.

Originally Posted by efnfast

Btw, I know you really like the BHBs, but how can you safely put them ahead of ONR+mf. Atleast with the ONR+mf you can go panel by panel and examine your cloth - if it has any dirt on it, stick it in the washing solution and rub it out then and there and the cloth is clean. With a brush you really can't see if dirt is adhered to it.......

I'll toss out my $0.02 on BHBs here.

The contact pressure with a BHB is *MUCH* less than that used with ONR. I barely contact the paint at all with a BHB, whereas with any type of MF/mitt/sponge you have to at least apply enough pressure to hold it against the panels, and that's a *lot* more than it takes to barely whisk the tips of the BHB's bristles across the finish.

I spray the BHB/point of contact with the paint with foamgun output. Noting that I have boosted water pressure that might factor in here, that foamgun output (no, it's not really foam IMO) not only provides soap and lubrication, but it also keeps the BHB rinsed clean.

You *can* see dirt on BHB bristles, but if you use it correctly there shouldn't be much of anything to see.

BHBs are *so* free-rinsing that you can pretty much flush away (potentially abrasive) dislodged dirt instantaneously with the foamgun, the moment it gets knocked free from the paint. Used without a foamgun, you just have to keep rinsing/redunking the BHB *very* frequently so it's always fully saturated with shampoo mix (hint: don't use a BHB without a foamgun ).

Moving the BHB (or any wash medium) in an interrupted, jiggling motion will help keep it rinsed out and will also minimize the severity of any marring that does occur. People move their media in long swaths and then wonder why they get foot-long scratches.

When I use ONR, I have to examine/deal with my wash media a lot more often than once-per-panel; it gets contaminated with dirt and I just don't trust the voodoo. Same, to an even greater degree, when using a mitt and conventional shampoo. If the dirt adheres to the wash medium, then marring becomes very likely.

But with the BHB/foamgun combo, no such worries. While I do still dunk the BHB in my rinse bucket as I feel necessary, by the end of the wash that rinse water is still almost entirely dirt-free because the dirt got flushed away rather than trapped in the BHB. IMO the only dirt in my rinse water comes from my follow up wash with the mitts, which don't rinse out nearly as well as a BHB.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by efnfast

Do you a link to where you describe your washing technique? I'd be curous to read it - I searched, but didn't find anything on the top (not exactly going to spend several hours searching for it, hehe =) )

Found it. I've made a few changes since then, but over all it's pretty similar.

Oh brother... Here he goes again. (Lot's of pics)

[Turbocress]

i need a pressure washer and a foam gun im missing out

[chefwong]

Turbocress -

You are not missing out.
Build from the bottom up...

Quality wash media and quality drying material for ~your paint~ that works....is a good starting ground. Along with good soap that has great lubricity....