carnuba melting

[JustinTRW]

My car was outside briefly in the 91 degree weather we had today. I was wondering, if I had left it out all day, would the carnuba eventually melt?

[DavidB]

It doesn't really "melt"... it evaporates. At a surface temp around 180 degrees, it starts burning off pretty quick.

db

[Jngrbrdman]

This is just a little help from CMA and Blackfire on melting points of carnuba and why some people prefer polymers.

[Lowejackson]

Just out of interest, what kind of surface temperature can you get on say a black car on a very hot day?

Steven

[joed1228]

Originally posted by Lowejackson
Just out of interest, what kind of surface temperature can you get on say a black car on a very hot day?

Steven

Either your getting pretty scared or you need a way to justify the Klasse to the wife

I was detailing the blue benz in the picture fourm, in the middle of the day parts of the car were too hot to keep your hand on for more than 20 seconds. We put the blitz on in the night.

[medic]

Originally posted by Lowejackson
Just out of interest, what kind of surface temperature can you get on say a black car on a very hot day?

Steven

HOT!! In Arizona, black cars get hot enough to give you red hands and even minor burns if you get in contact with them for too long.

In my black interior when I was in AZ, I had to wet down and hands the stearing wheel with water before I could drive. I sill used to get heat blisters on my fingers from it.

[dbackfan]

In Arizona in the summer you can literally fry an egg on the surface of a car. If you were left alone in a car with the windows rolled up in the sun, you would begin to suffer brain damage in less than 10 minutes. Sadly, some moron leaves their kid in a locked car every summer. I new a guy that threw a rock through the window of a parked car in order to free a dog.

I have a black on black 911 and I live in Arizona. Guess how often I drive it during the day in the summer. Nada.

[MikeLS]

This is precisely why, in another thread, I mentioned that using carnauba in an extended and very hot climate on a daily driver is a complete waste of time, unless you're willing to wax every week or every other week. At the very least, you're better served using some type of sealant as a base coat for protection and maybe a carnauba layer, if you like, as a cosmetic. Even carnaubas with "polymers" in the formula don't stand a chance to extreme heat.... Just the facts...

[JS]

Believe what you want--but Blitz contains polymer resins. That's polymers (without the quotation marks). Which is why you can layer it

Would you call Meguiar's #26 a "Carnauba Wax"--fact is it is less than 4% Carnauba--it is mostly polymer resins.

Do you think that doesn't effect the durability of either wax in a positive way?

Just the facts.

[DETAILKING]

The oils, in a carnuba mixture inhibit crosslinking and true bonding that is found in polymer products, even when polymers are added to the formula. The polymers might be there, but they just kind of lay on top of the surface just like carnuba wax does.

Most of the time, these so called polymer additives in waxes are nothing more than polyethylene wax, for an attempt to have a more stable system with a higher melting point. Although this might improve durability marginally, a product is only as good as it's weakest link, and the carnuba and parrifin wax will soften first on a hot day...........

Also, carnuba cannot expand and contract thermally with your paint, since it is hard and brittle in it's pure "cured" state. When the panels of the car do expand and contract thermally, it causes voids in the wax bed and causes the oils to leach out, and be washed off easily. This is why gloss usually drops after each wash.........more so in the hotter climates.

As for carnuba content.....4% is typical in a lot of formulations, the balance being oils and solvents..........

[MikeLS]

I'm not arguing the fact that many carnauba formulations contain some form of polymers. Do I think they play a significant role in durability? Absolutely not in most cases. Case in point, I've used quite a bit of Meguiar's Medallion in the past, just to name one. They sell the formula on the fact that it contains polymers and so forth for better shine and maybe durability. Based on my experience, even under normal conditions, the Medallion didn't last longer than a few weeks, usually a couple a best. So, what did those polymers do for it? And, if it can't last longer than a couple weeks under normal conditions, how can it possibly hold up in very hot environments? There are many other examples, such as Pinnacle Paste Glaze and Souveran, that claim to contain polymers. Everyone knows, even under normal conditions, that those waxes only last about a month tops. So, I'm not one to believe that polymers in carnauba offer any increased durability.

I think it is also very important to understand the types and quality of the polymers used in carnauba and even non-carnauba formulas when speaking of durability concerns. There are thousands of different polymers, some are used for longevity, many are used for shine qualities alone. Personally, based on my experience, I do not believe polymers are used in carnauba for durability, but rather for shine qualities. I'm willing to suspect that the types of polymers used in carnaubas are mainly silicone, which are used solely for its shine properties, and for the fact that it's very cheap to add. Sometimes silicone polymers add durability, and sometimes they does not, depends on the formula in most cases. As DK stated, it would be almost impossibe for the polymers to form a bond anyhow for the oils in the wax.

My point being is that I have never come across a carnauba wax that can stand up to very hot conditions, even the ones with polymers. Just because some products contain "polymers" doesn't automatically qualify it as a long lasting product. Like I said, it depends on the types of polymers used. So, I personally, do not believe that polymers add anything durability wise in a carnauba. Otherwise, you would have a carnauba formula that lasts as long as Zaino or Klasse. Fact is that the polymers/resins used in a sealant or carnauba are so different and used for entirely different purposes...

I totally agree with DK.