Wax Discussion ( primarily Carnauba - based )

[poyo]

Guys,

I'm still searching around for a good wax to use as a final LSP after sealing the polishing work ( FK 2180 will be mostly used as the sealant as I want that anti - static properties. Meguiar's M21 might be used as well. ). I have been an avid Meguiar's NXT Paste Wax user, but I'm thinking of going a different brand and route.

I believe that carnauba - based wax will still be the best product to use, in order to gain the best shine, depth and cleaning properties ( that is, carnauba - based wax will not allow water etchings, bird dropping etching etc to bond to the paintwork ). But for clarity, I feel ( this is my personal opinion ) that I may need a synthetic / polymer - based, hence the use of FK 2180 as sealant.

The problem I'm facing ( and a lot of other guys here in Malaysia ) is that the unavailability of products, and the hassle of ordering products from overseas. Currently, we can get access to Meguiar's, Finish Kare, Optimum, Jeffs Werkstatt, Clearkote, Menzerna, Duragloss, Collinite and Swissvax ( Meguiar's and Swissvax can be sourced locally, the rest from Singapore ).

I need a wax ( carnauba - based ) that will bring the best of everything to the car that have been nicely polished and sealed. Here are the choices that I have access to :

- Meguiar's M16, M26, M20, M21 and NXT.
- FK 2180, FK 1000P, FK Pink Wax.
- Optimum Car Wax.
- Jeffs Werkstatt ( the whole range ).
- Clearkote ( the whole range, I believe as I'm not familiar with Clearkote ).
- Menzerna ( I believe Menzerna only produces polish ).
- Duragloss ( the whole range, I believe ).
- Collinite ( both #476 and #845 ).
- Swissvax ( the whole range, I believe as I'm not familiar with Swissvax ).

From the list above, I'm kinda partial to FK 1000P. But that is because I have been told by my friend here that FK Pink Wax is a very shiny, good depth, reflective and gives good clarity type of wax, but falters badly in terms of durability as M16 lasts longer. How much longer, I'm not sure, but I'm thinking maybe around 2 months here in Malaysia ( high humidity, heavy rains and 38 degrees Celcius altogether in one day ).

I have used only NXT Paste Wax and M16. My opinon is that NXT Paste Wax makes the car very2 shiny, reflects a lot and have quite a good depth ( car in question is polished with Meguiar's M80 ), but fails in durability. Meguiar's M16, in the other hand, excels in the durability test but falters a little bit in the others.

My requirements are :
- the wax must be able to bring the best of everything.
- the wax must last at least 2 months ( vehicle is parked outside 24 hours a day, exposed to hot sun, heavy rains, the whole works! ) with the car washed and sprayed with some sort of booster spray once a week. All this in a country that have very high humidity, extreme heat in the afternoons ( up to 38 degrees Celcius ) and have extremely heavy rains, which here, it rains heavily at LEAST twice a week.
- the wax must not let water etch, bird dropping etch to bond to the paintwork.
- the wax must note mute the shine from the polishing work done underneath ( I have read about Collinite #476 muting the shine etc here in Autopia. )

My questions are :
- after polishing, I will seal the work with FK 2180. If I want the very best shine, should I apply some sort of glaze? If I do, have to, when is the best time to apply the glaze? After polishing, or after polish + seal? And if I do, any brands from the list that I have access to above, that you guys might recommend?
- I've been told by a fellow detailer locally, that M16 outlasts FK Pink Wax, so should I delete FK Pink Wax from my list?
- I've also been told that M16 does hold up in the durability category, but in the shine, depth and reflectivity, it fails. So, if I still use M16, does a proper sealant work underneath will boost the shine, depth and reflectivity?
- I understand that most carnauba - based waxes will give a very good shine and superb depth to a nicely polished and sealed paintwork. What about clarity and reflectivity? How do I gain all four? Do I require a very good polymer sealant underneath to help me gain all four? And what about glazes? Will it help me, or is it just a waste of time and money ( if the wax I use makes the glaze step useless? )?

[Accumulator]

poyo- I've only used some of the LSPs on your list, but I *think* that #16 is the most likely to fit the bill. Best combination of characteristics, best overall compromise between mutually exclusive factors. Only other one I'd consider is Collinite 476S.

Sealants under #16 never looked as good to me as #16 by itself, but I haven't tried this with many sealants. Can't say about glazes as I've not tried the modern ones that started coming out a few years ago.

#16 has good reflectivity IMO, good shine too, but not great depth. Very clear IMO.

Collinite 845 looks roughly similar to #16 but doesn't last as long IME. 476S is much more durable. Collinite beading is a little better than #16's but #16 is also very, very good in this regard. Collinite is simply the *best* when it comes to beading, assuming you think that beading is good.

Collinite 476S only appears to mute *some* paints On others it looks great and I can't imagine that any customers would *ever* consider it unacceptable.

Bence, who certainly knows his stuff, likes #16 when layered (3 layers, 24 hours apart IIRC). He describes Pink Wax as being "more obvious" and I suspect he likes it better looks-wise when only one coat is applied. But I sincerely doubt that its durability is anywhere near that of #16.

[sixty7mustang22]

Looking for the perfect wax, huh? Good luck.

I like Collinite 476s for what you are describing though, as far as being carnuba based. It Gives a carnuba shine with a sealant life. I have never had it mute anything. It has no cleaning abilities.

I also like M21 and DG #105. Easy to apply and remove and give great shine. Especially #105.

As far as stopping bird etchings, are you like leaving them on or something? If you leave them and water spots on, it will etch the paint no matter what wax you have on.

Good luck looking for the perfect wax.

BTW, you will get a lot of different answers here in this forum as eveyone likes the products they use and eveyone uses different products. Plus, one person may hate a particular wax while another loves it. Research and trying them in you own situations is about the only way to find the "perfect" wax for yourself.

[MDRX8]

I like the combo of Meg #21 and ClearKote Carnauba Moose Wax...

[weekendwarrior]

I like the looks of the Pinnacle Souveran liquid. I like the way it looks, but haven't done a durability test. The car I applied it to is a garaged vehicle, so durability wasn't a major concern for me anyways.

[poyo]

Thanks for the answers Accumulator.

Have you tried FK 1000P? I was told ( well, by the reseller, not a user ) that FK 1000P will give all that I want, plus durable protection, as it was primarily designed for boat use. Well, hot sun and salty water, what do you get in return?

I would love to test products, but most of my pals locally here do not have much of a selection.

Layers of M16? Hhhmmm, should give it a try there.

But when it comes to doing my pal's cars, now that's an issue : time. Most of them only allows me to do their cars under 6 hours. Only a couple of them leaves their cars with me overnight, which allows me to do their car thoroughly, inside out, engine bay, wheel wells, the works.

Therefore, I would love to see recommendations from others on this matter. A good wax that lasts here for at least 2 months with weekly washing + spray wax of some sort. Or maybe all that, plus a selaant to go. Or plus all of this plus a glaze for that max shine, depth, clarity and reflectivity?

I hope Bence will chime in. And others too!

Originally Posted by Accumulator

poyo- I've only used some of the LSPs on your list, but I *think* that #16 is the most likely to fit the bill. Best combination of characteristics, best overall compromise between mutually exclusive factors. Only other one I'd consider is Collinite 476S.

Sealants under #16 never looked as good to me as #16 by itself, but I haven't tried this with many sealants. Can't say about glazes as I've not tried the modern ones that started coming out a few years ago.

#16 has good reflectivity IMO, good shine too, but not great depth. Very clear IMO.

Collinite 845 looks roughly similar to #16 but doesn't last as long IME. 476S is much more durable. Collinite beading is a little better than #16's but #16 is also very, very good in this regard. Collinite is simply the *best* when it comes to beading, assuming you think that beading is good.

Collinite 476S only appears to mute *some* paints On others it looks great and I can't imagine that any customers would *ever* consider it unacceptable.

Bence, who certainly knows his stuff, likes #16 when layered (3 layers, 24 hours apart IIRC). He describes Pink Wax as being "more obvious" and I suspect he likes it better looks-wise when only one coat is applied. But I sincerely doubt that its durability is anywhere near that of #16.

[tod071]

I just received my Swissvax Concorso and love the depth, clarity, wetness, and gloss that it produces. I just detailed my mom's car with UPGP topped with Swissvax Concorso. Given the choices you have available, I would go with either Megs 21 or Duragloss 105 topped with Concorso. Being that I just received and used it, I can't comment on durability of the Concorso.

[Rob22315]

DG 105 topped with AW is a popular cost effective combo. I use DG 501/105/AW and really like the shine and feel. I haven't had it on long enough to assess durability but I've had the combo on a SS red SAAB for a month and it still looks great. I touch it up once a week with FC&S which, from the smell, is likely a diluted version of AW with some cleaning ability and scratch protection.

My wife usually drives it to work and one of her coworkers congradulated her on her 'bling'. I keep up the windows, trim and tires too so the car looks great. The finish has some really deep scratches and few chips down to the primer but from a distance, it holds it own next to newer CC finishes.

I just discovered DG Ultimate Conditioning Spray (265) for under the hood. The stuff really makes the rubber and vinyl components look great, even without much cleaning. I put it on this past weekend so I don't know how long it will last yet. The rest of the engine is pretty dirty so I plan to do a low effort (probabably simple green or an engine degreaser) this next weekend to get a majority of the dirt off, then hit the rubber and vinyl components again.

RG

[poyo]

Hhhmmm...I know how M21 performs locally. Good durability, but in terms of dirt, bird dropping and acid rain etching ( plus diesel exhaust fumes etc ) kinda stuck hard, and takes an effort to shift whilst washing, which I may potentially inflict swirls etc. ClearKote Carnauba Moose Wax? I don't think I have pals who have used it, locally.

Originally Posted by MDRX8

I like the combo of Meg #21 and ClearKote Carnauba Moose Wax...

[sspeer]

FK 1000P is a paste sealant, no carnauba that I'm aware of. The best way to describe the look is 'extra thick clear coat'..so probably not the best choice for depth..

The most durable waxes generally aren't considred the best looking in the wax world. In the end, I think you can get a great looking wax with good durability or a good looking wax with great durabililty. As well as some excellent looking waxes with poor durability

You mention you want to use a sealant because it's optically clear, but then you want to cover it up with a carnauba...I'n the world of optics and light..layers will limit you to the least clear. I also don't think optically perfect and depth work in the same sentence as depth is an illusion caused by refraction (In my head at least)

I think you're going to have to give (just a little) on some requirements.

As far as light colored cars and metallics, you may just want to stick with the sealant (multiple layers)

Personally with what I'm familiar with..I'd go with these options and generally stick with 1 family

Meguiar's - #21, then #26 or #16 (26 looks a little better at the cost of a little durability)

FK - #2180, then 1000P and/or PW.

If you're definite on #2180, you might as well throw in the other two since you're paying for shipping..worst case is that you can sell them to friends who already like them

[SilverSeven]

Hi poyo, since I'm in M'sia too. Let me chip in for u on sumthing.... Over here in M'sia, usually the shine, slickness, gloss and etc will only last for either 1-3 days only. After tht there's only protection left behind on the surface. Worst if it's raining, the wax's shine & gloss diminish after 1 day of rain. After that, the paint is back to original 'preb' shine only.

So far I've used:

M21, Nxt, CleanerWax, Colorx, Goldclass, M20, M16, DC3, Z2Pro, Z5 Pro, Opti-seal, Natty's Blue, Collinite 476s, FK2180, FK No. 1 Car Glaze, Poli-seal, DG 105, Klasse AIO, Swisssol Onyx, Sonax No. 1, Autoglym Ultra Deep Shine, AG Ultra Gloss Protection, Carplan Triplewax, Carplan Auto Finish Advance, Kit wax, Blackmagic Wet Shine, Polyglaze Diamond Finish, Perma Glass Polymer Sealant, Turtlewax Platinum Ultra Gloss, TW F21, Soft99 Fusso Coat, Kit's Gentle Wax, Maxwax, Powerwax, Soft99 Authentic Platinum, Osren Liquid Crystal, JW Prime Acrylic & JW Acrylic Jett.

And I still can't get what I want. Hehehe... What I'm saying is theres only one solution over here in M'sia, which is wax the car more often. I wax my car every Sunday. As for bird etching, it really much depends on the bird's diet (what they eat).

But mostly I've found Carnauba like M16, Collinite & etc works better than most sealants. As I parked my car behind my house (backlane). And my neighbor keep feeding the pigeon foods and the birds poo on my car almost every day. U know lah, typical M'sian culture. Sometimes 1 -2 sh@t. I use a QD to remove them. But sometimes 'kena' more I have to wash the whole car.

On the shine and reflective point IMO, it comes down to the 'preb' work. As from my own eyes, most wax or sealant's shine last for a few days. After that there's still protection tho. 2 months I don't think it's a long time. Most waxes and sealant should hold 2 mths. But just like me, if u want the shine and reflectivity and gloss, u need to wax more often. QD's just won't take the heat in our weather and won't last enough here. The temp maybe 39 celcius but the paint temp may be higher. I prefer to wax every week for my eye's satisfaction.

Since it's raining season nowadays, I find tht I need to clay more often. The last time I've clay was like 2 months ago. My own opinion, polish the paint to the best possible gloss and shine, don't depend on the waxes and sealant shine. Use them for the protection point of view. As a sacrificial barrier against the elements. That's what's their main point is anyhow... Hehehe... Peace.

[vx55]

Hi poyo,

Currently, I have a metallic silver Nissan Latio (Versa) to test 3xSRP and 3xEGP. I applied them on 31st August and the combo is still lasting, with strong beading especially on the roof. The car is garaged every night and washed weekly except for a few longer breaks. I applied both products by hand.
The combo's shine does not shout at you (not very bright) but it still has slight wetness to it. It has average slickness so far. I think EGP is tuned to be much of a all-rounder for various colors.
As for protection, so far there's no rain water etching but I have various experiences with bird lime. Most of the time, a simple flush from a hose will do but there are a few occasions that tough ones still stay put on the paintwork only after 15mins. Luckily I wash able to wash it off using normal washing routine.
I have a few pics of the car and beading properties if you want to view them

I would also like to know how many initial layers are you planning to put on the car? In our country, you need at least 2 layers to maintain decent durability. Carwash products also affects durability.

I know that you are asking mostly about carnauba waxes but since you are partial to FK1 1000P (which is a paste sealant), I would like to share my experiences with you.

For any LSP product to work its best, proper paintwork preparation is a must. I managed to have 1 layer of Turtle Wax F-21 lasted for 2 months on my trunk lid and it's exposed to the elements since my house patio doesn't extend long enough to cover the whole car