When SIP Gets Ornery...

SuperBee364 · 10-16-07, 06:59

So today I'm detailing a friends Infinity G35. It's about four years old, and I don't think it's ever seen a coat of wax.

After claying, I grabbed the SIP, a purple foamed wool pad, and got to work. I think just about everybody that has used SIP has probably experienced a time when SIP just does not want to play nicely. Today was one of those days for me. It didn't matter *what* pad I threw at it, it just wasn't gonna cooperate. So I started thinking... what was different today vs. the last time I used SIP three days ago? The weather was exactly the same. I was using the same pads, same rotary, same speed, same batch of SIP. There had to be *something* different.

Then it hit me. I hadn't done an IPA wipedown after I finished claying. I had used Mother's clay and detail spray. Figuring I didn't have much to lose, I grabbed the IPA and quickly wiped down the car.

It was smooth sailing with SIP for the rest of the day after that.

Next time SIP starts acting up, grab your alcohol spray bottle and give the car a quick wipedown. It just might help. If not, oh well, you're only out five minutes.

SpoiledMan · 10-16-07, 07:09

I'll try that next time.

I mixed up some SIP and 106ff thinking that I would use it today but didn't as I needed to use something that was *sure* to work. I'll report back on how well this "mix" works.

SuperBee364 · 10-16-07, 07:15

Oh I love to mix SIP and 106FF together. I've used that mix before when SIP wouldn't play nice. It works great, and makes SIP as easy to use as 106FF, but it does take away alot of SIP's cutting power.

rydawg · 10-17-07, 06:45

Glad you figured it out. I mentioned this in a past post of mine. SIP will not work after some detail sprays were used. It also will act up if there is certain waxes still present on the paint.

I usually do a alcohol wipedown and/or z6 wipedown to make the surface smoother. Also some clays will leave behind a fild along with the spray, so a wipedown will remove the remaining film. On soft paints, products are absorbed deeper into the paint unlike hard paints.

rydawg · 10-17-07, 06:46

Try Powergloss and 106!

Greg Nichols · 10-17-07, 07:19

I've never had this problem, maybe becuase I use Chemical Guys CWG with a more concentrated amount???

Thanks SuperBee, if I ever do run into that problem I remember.

Alfisti · 10-17-07, 08:20

This issue reminds of these comments on one Australian importer's website from whom I bought my Menzerna polishes:

"THE REMOVAL OF SMEAR FROM POLISHED SURFACES
Polishing is a mechanical process. Silicon is a product that has been designed not to be removed by mechanical abrasion. When using Menzerna, to polish surfaces which have been previously treated with silicon, a smear may result. It is important to understand why this occurs.

CAUSE
There are lots of silicon oils on the market. The properties that make silicon so popular with car detailers, and some auto manufacturers, also make it a very difficult product for the polisher to remove. During polishing, the silicon mixes with the excess paint that is being removed from the surface to form a smear.

Can you remove silicon from a clearcoat completely?
It is impossible to remove silicon from a painted surface without using a chemical process so aggressive that it dissolves the paint. Wax and grease removers will chemically remove one layer of silicon off at a time but are unable to completely remove all the silicon. Tests by Dr Michael Hauber at Menzerna using a spectroscope showed the layers become thinner but the silicon remains. Removing silicon completely can take place over time and involves a lengthy process of oxygen, chemicals, time and sunlight."

This may help explain why IPA helps. It removes the top layer of silicone present due to previous wax applications or QD that contain silicone.

SVR · 10-17-07, 10:10

I do a prepsol wipedown after each claying. Then if that doesn't work toughseal step 1 and four star paint cleanser get applied to deep clean it

Also watch out for those sticky clearcoats.

rydawg · 10-17-07, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This issue reminds of these comments on one Australian importer's website from whom I bought my Menzerna polishes:

"THE REMOVAL OF SMEAR FROM POLISHED SURFACES
Polishing is a mechanical process. Silicon is a product that has been designed not to be removed by mechanical abrasion. When using Menzerna, to polish surfaces which have been previously treated with silicon, a smear may result. It is important to understand why this occurs.

CAUSE
There are lots of silicon oils on the market. The properties that make silicon so popular with car detailers, and some auto manufacturers, also make it a very difficult product for the polisher to remove. During polishing, the silicon mixes with the excess paint that is being removed from the surface to form a smear.

Can you remove silicon from a clearcoat completely?
It is impossible to remove silicon from a painted surface without using a chemical process so aggressive that it dissolves the paint. Wax and grease removers will chemically remove one layer of silicon off at a time but are unable to completely remove all the silicon. Tests by Dr Michael Hauber at Menzerna using a spectroscope showed the layers become thinner but the silicon remains. Removing silicon completely can take place over time and involves a lengthy process of oxygen, chemicals, time and sunlight."

This may help explain why IPA helps. It removes the top layer of silicone present due to previous wax applications or QD that contain silicone.

This is VERY TRUE! On softer paints such as Ford, Mazda, Lexus, Toyota, Infinity, etc., it will sink into the paint and it will chaulk the paint making it very gummy.

I have actually experienced this issue numerous times. Last week I had a 06 Ford Mustang with something on the paint and I could not budge through the film layer to remove the swirls. I tried over 40 different products and chemicals. Whatever silicon product was used, it had sunk DEEP into the paint and was not coming off unless the paint was stripped off of the car and repainted.

Now I do not know if this is true, but a chemical expert had told me if you put a silicon based carnuba over an acrylic product you will have the same issues down the road too. He said he had experienced this in the past with Liquid Glass Polish on black Vettes when it was popular. I think he might have a very good point.

When paint is covered with this issue look very closely for very tiny little specks that are gray or tiny little clear crystals with rainbow effects around them. They are very very tiny but are visible in the direct sunlight.

wannafbody · 10-17-07, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by rydawg

This is VERY TRUE! On softer paints such as Ford, Mazda, Lexus, Toyota, Infinity, etc., it will sink into the paint and it will chaulk the paint making it very gummy.

I have actually experienced this issue numerous times. Last week I had a 06 Ford Mustang with something on the paint and I could not budge through the film layer to remove the swirls. I tried over 40 different products and chemicals. Whatever silicon product was used, it had sunk DEEP into the paint and was not coming off unless the paint was stripped off of the car and repainted.

Now I do not know if this is true, but a chemical expert had told me if you put a silicon based carnuba over an acrylic product you will have the same issues down the road too. He said he had experienced this in the past with Liquid Glass Polish on black Vettes when it was popular. I think he might have a very good point.

When paint is covered with this issue look very closely for very tiny little specks that are gray or tiny little clear crystals with rainbow effects around them. They are very very tiny but are visible in the direct sunlight.

That is downright scary. Are you sure that it wasn't super hard clearcoat? Is this a problem with all silicone polymer sealants? I've heard an even scarier issue is when silicone seeps into fiberglass because there isn't anyway to remove it.

rydawg · 10-17-07, 02:59

I have never experienced this with polymer sealants. That is why I stick to polymer sealants.

I am positive it was not the rock hard clear that was giving the issue. It was mainly soft clears that would give me the issues where the silicones sink deep into the paint. Hard clears, it more or less just sits on top and can be taken off with 5 wipe downs of IPA.

When I have this issue, I will make sure I will not use my pads on a nice car unless they are degreased for a day.

maesal · 10-17-07, 03:45

Nice info there !! Thanks !!