Menzerna's New 106FA (pic) - Page 5

01bluecls · 04-18-07, 10:13

I re-read my posts and it seems I may be coming off as "not nice" but here are notes why I feel there is deception behind CleanYourCars thread over at detailing world.

1. He is a vendor that sells ALL of the products he uses. He has sales to gain convincing people the this new polish is the best easy to use polish that can achieve amazing reults from PC alone. (Look at the detailing market as a community and I would say 90% or more use the PC)
2. Pictures in his thread easily shows the name of the product (Porter Cable, Polycharger, SuperSpray) Kind of like putting a BMW in a movie.
3. There is a Makita buffer RIGHT NEXT to the car in a picture with a pad on it and polish build on the pad. He states in the thread he only used the PC, with no mention to using the rotary.
4. Results that he has achieved are stunning none the less, but by his process that he states alone... I dont think so.
5. He states he removed 6-8 microns...using PC light polish and polish pad...again I dont think so. I have used EC with a rotary @ 1500 rpms with multiple passes and have not removed that much. I assuming the microns he is mentioning is the same as the ums my paint guage reads. There are two readings most paint gauges give, um and mils. If im wrong about this I apologize in advance.

Im sorry if im posting a lot about this issue. I feel like it is blatent deception.

porta · 04-19-07, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmblack3a

to last year....

Sorry, I must be stupid but I don´t know what you mean?

steck · 04-19-07, 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptaylor_9849

With no disrespect to the original poster. If paint correction was as easy as making one pass with a PC, then there would be no need for this forum to exist and professional detailers would not be necessary. Justin, I think your friend isn't telling you the whole story. Either that or Renault paint is softer than anything I've ever seen.

i was just thinkin that !!

justin30513 · 04-19-07, 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01bluecls

Very well said...

Justin Im not attacking you directly or indirectly. I just feel ALL the facts are not being represented, intentionally or not.

Understood. Do you all really thing that this couldn't be done? I done similar myself with OHC.........

Full post soon.

01bluecls · 04-19-07, 06:19

Justin - OHC is an aggressive compound and you probably used a cutting pad more than likely. I still see defects in on the hood of your pics. Cleanyourcar's pics has ZERO defects and he didnt use any compound or cutting pad....big difference. You dont still believe his post is accurate after everything I presented do you??

Dave KG · 04-19-07, 06:37

Hmmm, this thread developped very interestingly didn't it....

If I may just add to this with my experiences of the Menzerna polishes and from them I wouldn not be entirely surprised if that level of correction coould be achieved with one set of passes (where I define as pass as moving the machine once across the panel, and a set the set of passes to break the polish down)...

First of all, we have to remember (as many obviously do) that paints very in hardness from not just manufacturer to manufacturer, not even model to model, but car to car! I have detailed two Renault Clios - one with very hard paint, the other very soft...

Now, I quite frequently do machine polishing demonstrations to folk, mainly with the PC in the UK, so many will see the results I achieve up close and personal as I demonstrate them. I use the Menzerna polishes for my demonstrations, and both myself and those I demonstrate to are amazed by the correction that can be achieved by correctly working a light abrasive polish, espeically on softer paints... Indeed I would go as far as to say this is not restricted to Menz polishes, try Meguiars #80 as well, work it thoroughly (takes a good 5 minutes over a small work area of about 18" sqaure to fully break it down) and you may just be surprised by what it removes... And before anyone cries "fillers", wipe it down with IPA... thats what I did and there was no evidence of fillers in the product. Indeed, on a black Audi A4, marring was removed with #80 using a polishing pad and thorughly working the polish - this was on a demonstration day by for the owner of the car who had just bought the PC.

The results above may seem very hard to believe but I have seen correction of this level with lighter abrasives myself, worked by myself on demonstration days and details. Not on all paints obviously, but softer paints are very easy to correct. Indeed I do feel that there is a tendancy amongst some detailers to get too aggressive too quickly with polishes, moving to compounds when actually thorughly working a light abrasive is all that is needed. I always use the less is more principle when polishing - achieve the defect correction required, but with the least possible aggressiveness.

I am here quite frankly a little disappointed in the way that the credibility of a poster here has been called into question in the way it has been done... I do undertand that seeing correction like this achieved with a light abrasive is hard to believe, but it is possible with correct working of light abrasives on soft paint, I have done it myself... And no, I dont work for or sell Menzerna myself, and its not always the Menzerna that surprises me - good old #80 has far more correcting power in my eyes than people give it credit for.

01bluecls · 04-19-07, 06:52

Im not saying a PC cannot correct. Im saying cleanyourcars post just doesnt add up. Why is the Makita right next to the car in the pic?? I also use Menzerna and have used Powergloss, IP, FPII, and 106FF. I have used Optimum polishes and have all three. I have used the PC and the Rotary. I have polished ultra soft paint that would marr wiping an LSP off with a clean high quality mf with nothing caught in the mf. I also use the least agreesive method when approaching paint, but since Im familiar with a lot of different paints I tend to know what corrections will be needed with what paints to some degree.

Why did I post all that? I safely say my experience in detailing tells me that something is wrong with his story. DaveKG im not attacking your comments. I just would like more "proof" of a polishing pad and this 106FA pulling results like this on other vehicles and from other detailers.

I would like people to post pics of the SAME level of defects cleanyourcar's pics has and show me afters of results from a final polish and polishing pad by PC. I can go through 100 of threads where cutting pads and more aggressive polishes were used that didnt produce the 50/50 shots you see.

Maybe i'm over reacting a little, but until things are proven, in my eyes credibility is hard to perceive in cleanyourcar's thread.

Dave Pickett · 04-19-07, 07:00

KG, I dont have enough experience to comment on the credibility of the correction, but I do agree on the capabilities of #80, its my favourite product.

I think there is a trend on DW for us all to believe that the latest product is the be all and end all and we all have to dash out and buy it (boutique waxes being the current favourite, when most of us know its the polishing and prep stages that give most of the gloss!!!)

Personally I hvae far too many products and am trying to use up my surplus and revert to mainly megs products which I know and understand, I believe in Mike Philips mantra

"find something you like and use it often"

I have been tempted by menz products on the back of various write ups, but their product codes put me off, what a nonsense!!!!

guess we are all guilty of chasing perfection!!!

crew219 · 04-19-07, 07:16

I think Dave KG is correct . . .there is a discrepancy between what the OP considers a pass and what we consider a pass. There is no way with ANY polish that a single pass (once over with the pad) will break down the polish enough to achieve that amount of correction. However, with one set of passes (working in a single application of polish), I can certainly seeing the PO106ff achieving this finish. A week ago, I did spot work on a black acura TL with the same polish and was able to achieve similar correction with one application of polish, being worked over in the same area for about 2-3 minutes.

Dave

01bluecls · 04-19-07, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by crew219

I think Dave KG is correct . . .there is a discrepancy between what the OP considers a pass and what we consider a pass. There is no way with ANY polish that a single pass (once over with the pad) will break down the polish enough to achieve that amount of correction. However, with one set of passes (working in a single application of polish), I can certainly seeing the PO106ff achieving this finish. A week ago, I did spot work on a black acura TL with the same polish and was able to achieve similar correction with one application of polish, being worked over in the same area for about 2-3 minutes.

Dave

Im not at all arguing the definition we consider "one pass," you can see in my first post in this thread I noted that a single pass was not one motion left to right but instead a working of the polish.

Im surprised that many of you so far feel this way. Still, no one is addressing my concern of the makita in the pic. Im sure I leave my makita laying around with a pad and polish build up on it right next to the car if im not using it!

I would really like the opinions of some of the pros on this forum such as Superior Fine, Picus, G35stilez, Tdekany and many of those who have proven their polishing capabilities.

SpoiledMan · 04-19-07, 07:32

Chris, it's possible that the rotary was used on the back section of the car (spoiler) and he decided to give it a go with something less aggressive? For me not having worked with the paint or the polish I can't say that it is or isn't possible.

crew219 · 04-19-07, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01bluecls

Im not at all arguing the definition we consider "one pass," you can see in my first post in this thread I noted that a single pass was not one motion left to right but instead a working of the polish.

Im surprised that many of you so far feel this way. Still, no one is addressing my concern of the makita in the pic. Im sure I leave my makita laying around with a pad and polish build up on it right next to the car if im not using it!

I would really like the opinions of some of the pros on this forum such as Superior Fine, Picus, G35stilez, Tdekany and many of those who have proven their polishing capabilities.

Would this convince you?

Taken from this thread

He is using a menzerna orange pad, which is IIRC fairly similar to the LC green german pad (fairly stiff and porous).

Dave