Tried DG #105 this weekend...my thoughts

[Sherman8r44]

Originally Posted by 06E90

I believe that all silicones are polymers but not all polymers are silicones. If I remember correctly, polymer refers to any molecular compound formed fron repeating units so the name can apply to numerous substances and really means nothing specific. Silicone is a type of polymer. Acrylic is also a type of polymer. I'm not up to date on my chemistry but I THINK this is acurate.

Ding ding ding, you are correct sir!

There have been a lot of silicone debates in the past, but what it comes down to is that silicone is merely a type of polymer and there are thousands upon thousands of different silicone polymers. Everything from rubber to adhesive to synthetic car wax can be made of silicone polymers. I'm sure there are certain kinds of silicones that are bad for body shop repainting, they types in glazes for example, and there are also others that form a shield on the surface acting as a synthetic wax.

BTW, according to the website FK1 2180 largely uses PDMS (polydimethylsiloxane), the most common for use as a sealant (it's also in most milky-white tire dressings).

[lawrencea]

In general polymers are called long chain. Silicone polymers are short chain.Short chain polymers need something else add to make them crosslink.

[Sherman8r44]

Originally Posted by lawrencea

In general polymers are called long chain. Silicone polymers are short chain.Short chain polymers need something else add to make them crosslink.

IIRC Silicone polymers can be longer chains or shorter chains depending on their chemistry.

[runnerbl]

Originally Posted by TigerMike

Yes, sorry about the lack of updates. I do not believe the Duragloss guys are wanting to do a promotion at this time. It's funny because at first, they seemed very excited about a promotion for the members, then there was no follow through from the company at all.

Honestly, their prices are already very reasonable, so maybe they didn't see a need for a discount at the time. Plus, I imagine, sales are already quite brisk at the moment, which again wouldn't lend to the need to really do a promotion.

Mike....thanks for the follow up......Maybe someone should ask one of the owners/chemists to see if they can do the discount...Seems like they are readily accessible to answer questions...

[jdlierle]

I talked to a customer on Saturday and he told me it cost him $75 and 7 hours to use Zaino on his brand new Tahoe. Where as Duragloss would take less than 3 hours if you count washing the vehicle (to be fair and unbiased)

STEP 1 Duragloss, I am guessing would cost about $22(Bonding Agent, TPP, AW) if purchased at the store, or add $5 for shipping for a total of $27, total time on new car would be no more than 40 minutes to 1 hour the first time to do the bonding agent and TPP if you are slow, and no wasted product.

Step 2 Next day, 30 minutes or less for TPP.

STEP 3 Next day 30 minutes or less for TPP

STEP 4 15 minutes for AW

I personally talked to Jerry at Duragloss, nice guy for over 30 minutes, told him I detail cars for money. He said steps 2 thru 4 WERE NOT NECESSARY for a great shine when detailing for $, but would enhance the shine for an autopian or do it yourself-er type. Also you could put AW on fairly soon after you apply the TPP. For a detailer, do a polish, bonding agent, TPP, than maybe AW if needed and she should be good to go. For an autopian, 12 hour cure time would be prudent before you apply another coat of TPP.

Another interesting thing Jerry mentioned, he said Sealants should not be topped with Carnuba. ALL CARNUBAS WILL DEGRADE the sealant. Makes sense to me. In order for the carnuba to bond, or like some waxes claim to clean it will degrade the sealant. The best finish you get will be with the sealant. I think he was talking about ALL SEALANTS, not just duragloss.

This may be why some people on here only get a month out of certain waxes or sealants while others get 4 or 6 months with the same products. I wonder if the same goes for using quick detailers that contain some type of waxes and sealants from another MFG?

I have had BRAND X on my truck since November, and the majority of posters on here say that this sealant/wax will only last a month. I always get compliments from customers and neighbors about my finish. I am afraid to use this sealant, on my customer cars because of what I have read here and use other products, but after testing them on certain panels of the truck, I am not sure they are really better. Sometimes the hype or marketing is what sells, or the flavor of the month.

I am sure interested in Duragloss. I have used Aqua Wax, and it sure delivered on what everyone has said. I also like UPP even though it has fallen out of favor and I have seen it's durability work. But you guys would laugh if I told you what was on my personal vehicles after 6 months and still was beading strong.

The first Zaino car I saw this weekend looked good, and felt smooth, but it did not blow me away. It didn't make me even think about trying the kit out. (Especially after the customer told me how much work it was). Actually the customer asked me for a bid on how much to detail the car (the one with Zaino on), and he knows I don't do Zaino. Sounds like a good candidate for the Duragloss TPP.

I may be wrong, but I thing the most important thing to the appearance of the car is the polishing and prep work. The least important is the final sealant. If the surface is defect free, most products will look good and last awhile. I'm not doubting some products will outshine some others, but the costs of the products and even the quality of products will not determine the final outcome, it will mostly be determined by the skill and passion of the person detailing the car. But we will all search for that perfect product to get that perfect finish!

Doug
______________________________________________________________________

So Cal Shine Shop TO Calif
Attention To Detail Is What Separates Us From The Rest

[blkZ28Conv]

Polymer is just a generic (science) term for a chain of monomers.

Many items are technical considered to be a polymer. For wood is a polymer of cellulose, sucrose (table sugar) is a chain of 2 glucose monomers.

The term polymer "does not" specify that a silicone or any nucleus element is involved. Polymer just indicates that a chain of like elements (monomers) are linked in a chain of varying lengths depending on the polymer involved.

In short "polymer" does not = silicone involvement in every case.

Hope this help

[DETAILKING]

Originally Posted by jdlierle

I talked to a customer on Saturday and he told me it cost him $75 and 7 hours to use Zaino on his brand new Tahoe. Where as Duragloss would take less than 3 hours if you count washing the vehicle (to be fair and unbiased)

STEP 1 Duragloss, I am guessing would cost about $22(Bonding Agent, TPP, AW) if purchased at the store, or add $5 for shipping for a total of $27, total time on new car would be no more than 40 minutes to 1 hour the first time to do the bonding agent and TPP if you are slow, and no wasted product.

Step 2 Next day, 30 minutes or less for TPP.

STEP 3 Next day 30 minutes or less for TPP

STEP 4 15 minutes for AW

I personally talked to Jerry at Duragloss, nice guy for over 30 minutes, told him I detail cars for money. He said steps 2 thru 4 WERE NOT NECESSARY for a great shine when detailing for $, but would enhance the shine for an autopian or do it yourself-er type. Also you could put AW on fairly soon after you apply the TPP. For a detailer, do a polish, bonding agent, TPP, than maybe AW if needed and she should be good to go. For an autopian, 12 hour cure time would be prudent before you apply another coat of TPP.

Another interesting thing Jerry mentioned, he said Sealants should not be topped with Carnuba. ALL CARNUBAS WILL DEGRADE the sealant. Makes sense to me. In order for the carnuba to bond, or like some waxes claim to clean it will degrade the sealant. The best finish you get will be with the sealant. I think he was talking about ALL SEALANTS, not just duragloss.

This may be why some people on here only get a month out of certain waxes or sealants while others get 4 or 6 months with the same products. I wonder if the same goes for using quick detailers that contain some type of waxes and sealants from another MFG?

I have had BRAND X on my truck since November, and the majority of posters on here say that this sealant/wax will only last a month. I always get compliments from customers and neighbors about my finish. I am afraid to use this sealant, on my customer cars because of what I have read here and use other products, but after testing them on certain panels of the truck, I am not sure they are really better. Sometimes the hype or marketing is what sells, or the flavor of the month.

I am sure interested in Duragloss. I have used Aqua Wax, and it sure delivered on what everyone has said. I also like UPP even though it has fallen out of favor and I have seen it's durability work. But you guys would laugh if I told you what was on my personal vehicles after 6 months and still was beading strong.

The first Zaino car I saw this weekend looked good, and felt smooth, but it did not blow me away. It didn't make me even think about trying the kit out. (Especially after the customer told me how much work it was). Actually the customer asked me for a bid on how much to detail the car (the one with Zaino on), and he knows I don't do Zaino. Sounds like a good candidate for the Duragloss TPP.

I may be wrong, but I thing the most important thing to the appearance of the car is the polishing and prep work. The least important is the final sealant. If the surface is defect free, most products will look good and last awhile. I'm not doubting some products will outshine some others, but the costs of the products and even the quality of products will not determine the final outcome, it will mostly be determined by the skill and passion of the person detailing the car. But we will all search for that perfect product to get that perfect finish!

Doug
______________________________________________________________________

So Cal Shine Shop TO Calif
Attention To Detail Is What Separates Us From The Rest

Not this again!

[jdlierle]

Detailking, to quote you "Let's keep the posts constructive."

How is your post constructive.

I was just relaying first hand information about Duragloss TPP and its application from one of the chemist who helped create it and the VP of the company.

I also made a comparison between the costs and application in the real world to an average person I HAD PERSONALLY MET, about Zaino and Duragloss FOR A NEW CAR.

Zanio is a great product according to many people, and the finish I saw looked good, didn't mean to jump on any ones toes. (But don't all new cars look pretty good anyway)

If you find products that work for you, and others don't happen to agree with you, or are not the flavor of the month, that does not mean they are not good products. If zaino, duragloss, meguiars, upp, poorboys, etc gets great results for you, don't let some over zealous posters sway you to buy the most expensive product that comes on the market every month, or your cabinet will be filled with 10 to 100 bottle of 3/4 filled bottle of waxes and/or sealants.

If you think what I am saying is a pile of stink fine, but from the classes I have taken, and from what I have read on Autopia, Prep. work is still the most important thing. If you put Zaino, Duragloss, Meguiars, or any wax or sealant on any improperly prepped car with nasty swirls, etchings, etc you will not get satisfactory results.

If you disagree fine, but please be more constructive than a cartoon of a pile of stink coming out of a trash can, funny but not constructive. I am sure other readers would like to hear you elaborate more.

Doug

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Cal Shine Shop TO Calif
Attention To Detail Is What Separates Us From The Rest

[RCBuddha]

Originally Posted by jdlierle

I talked to a customer on Saturday and he told me it cost him $75 and 7 hours to use Zaino on his brand new Tahoe. Where as Duragloss would take less than 3 hours if you count washing the vehicle (to be fair and unbiased).......I also made a comparison between the costs and application in the real world to an average person I HAD PERSONALLY MET, about Zaino and Duragloss FOR A NEW CAR.

I agree that Z is more expensive, but how does it take more time to do than Duragloss?

Duragloss Steps:
Wash with CWC
Polish with 652 or 671
Apply 601
Apply 111, 105 or 104
Use AW

Z steps:
Z7 wash
ZPC
Z1 (but you can use ZFX instead)
Z5 or Z2Pro
Z6 or Z8

Same amount of steps, and you could even skip Z1, since you can use ZFX. I can assure you that the Z steps do not take any longer to do than any other product line...

[TortoiseAWD]

Originally Posted by jdlierle

If you disagree fine, but please be more constructive than a cartoon of a pile of stink coming out of a trash can, funny but not constructive. I am sure other readers would like to hear you elaborate more.

It's a "can of worms", not a pile of stink, and I doubt it was meant to be malicious. DK is making the point that this type of discussion comes up every couple of months, and often spins out of control as defenders of one product and proponents of another begin to get more and more worked up about it. From a moderator's perspective, it's like opening a can of worms.

Or like beating a dead horse . . .

Tort

[DETAILKING]

Originally Posted by TortoiseAWD

It's a "can of worms", not a pile of stink, and I doubt it was meant to be malicious. DK is making the point that this type of discussion comes up every couple of months, and often spins out of control as defenders of one product and proponents of another begin to get more and more worked up about it. From a moderator's perspective, it's like opening a can of worms.

Or like beating a dead horse . . .

Tort

.

[blkZ28Conv]

Originally Posted by TortoiseAWD

Or like beating a dead horse . . .

Tort