Problems removing SG? (little long)

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 02:43

For those who have reported problems, trouble or a lot of effort buffing Klasse SG after applying, how long do you typically wait to buff? The reason why I am asking is that I recently purchased the 33 oz size after reading good stuff about it's durability, but while waiting for the order to arrive, I kind of got apprehensive to use it after reading about problems with it's removal. So much that I purchased UPP during the time that I was waiting for my order to arrive and have even considered ordering FK 2180.

I did a test application on our family van this past weekend. It had previously been waxed with NXT Tech only. I prepped with AIO and followed up with SG applied with a MF foam applicator with a mist of Eagle One WWS per the directions from properautocare.com. At first, I was surprised at how liquidy it came out of the container. Much thinner than AIO and I think I probably got too much on the pad just to do the hood of the van. But I applied anyways and figured that I would have to get the Sonus Acrylic Spritz ready to buff. I tried to apply very thin and in overlapping motions to try to make sure I got even coverage. I could see the product going on, so I figured that I was applying WAY too much product. Next time I will be ready for how thin SG is.

Anyways, I left it to dry for about an hour under shade at about 80 degrees. I got my buffing MF and the Sonus ready and started to buff. There was a slight haze and it came right off! No trouble and didn't need the Sonus to remove it all without leaving any streaks. I was of course pleasantly surprised as I was expecting a LOT of trouble because I applied it too thick. I followed up by applying the Sonus anyways and then pulled the van into the sun and didn't see any haze. I did notice some minor swirls that I didn't notice prior to AIO/SG. I assume that the NXT was concealing it. It stormed the next day and I noticed that the hood was beading up in smaller and tighter beads than the roof that had only NXT on it.

Please be assured that I am NOT bragging or anything of the sort. Just trying to learn more about SG and learn from the experience of those who use it. I am just very surprised that I didn't encounter the nightmare of removing by applying too thick. I had intended on applying VERY thin, but the consistency of SG was much thinner than I thought and more came out on the applicator pad than I had wanted. Again, I was ready for a tough removal, but nothing. I also read that they recommend waiting even as much as overnight to remove. I waited for an hour at about 80 degrees. Is the temperature the key? I also applied by misting the MF applicator with QD as recommended by properautocare.com. Is that the key? Is there something that I am missing? Is there a haze remaining on the paint that I am not noticing and that's the tough part to remove? It looked fine to me. No haze and good shine. The paint could use a light polish, but not dullness or haze. Or is the use of QD to mist the MF applicator the key? Or have you tried that and still had a tough time removing? This experience didnt' seem any tougher than removing AIO, UPP or EXP.

So before I go looking for another polymer sealant with approximately equal durability with easier application & removal (like 2180 or FMJ) to use instead of SG, I want to know more about those of you who had rough experiences with removal of SG. Like I said, I already got another LSP before I even received my order due to the postings on how tough SG is to remove. In fact, I was ready to try the dilution of SG to use a QD and move on to another sealant.

Thanks.

Accumulator · 04-03-06, 02:55

drck1000- This isn't the kind of reply you're after, but anyhow...

I too find KSG pretty easy to work with, but I still caution people to be careful to put it on thin and to consider waiting overnight (you've probably read some of my posts to that effect). I don't use a QD when I apply or do anything else that people recommend to make it easier to use (but I do put it on very thin). I just don't have problems with it

I'm not wild about how it looks but it's OK and I really do appreciate the durability and the way it seems to protect the paint.

Since the KSG seems to work OK for you, I don't see any reason to consider another, similar product. That bottle of KSG will last for years, so I'd just say to consider yourself lucky and stick with it

There's maybe a lesson here about getting too worried about something because of what others post

I too have wondered if I was in for buyer's remorse when people were all

about something I'd just ordered, but I've learned to see for myself before second-guessing things too readily.

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 03:18

Accumulator - Thank you very much for your reply and it does help because it sort of confirms that I am not missing something. Like I am not removing or noticing a very sligh haze that is actually the bear to remove.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I too find KSG pretty easy to work with, but I still caution people to be careful to put it on thin and to consider waiting overnight (you've probably read some of my posts to that effect). I don't use a QD when I apply or do anything else that people recommend to make it easier to use (but I do put it on very thin). I just don't have problems with it

I'm not wild about how it looks but it's OK and I really do appreciate the durability and the way it seems to protect the paint.

I probably will try other LSP's for looks. I do find that SG leaves very tight beading and is probably very durable, I didn't really leave a high gloss or very slick surface. The gloss and slickness can be address, I believe, with some sort of topping. What attracted me to SG in the first place is the level of durability reported. At first, I was really concerned with durability and less with depth and gloss because I have a silver car. But I probably will be reapplying AIO/LSP about every 2-3 months anyways, so durability probably won't be that much of an issue for me anymore. That said, I probably will continue to try SG based on reputation alone and maybe use it on friends or family cars where I know they won't wash or wax regularly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Since the KSG seems to work OK for you, I don't see any reason to consider another, similar product. That bottle of KSG will last for years, so I'd just say to consider yourself lucky and stick with it

Yeah. I would feel wasteful, especially since I bought the 33oz size as it was only like $5 more than the 16.9 oz size. If looks became the main issue, I would probably use UPP instead as I do really like that combination on my car. But I will have to keep an eye on the durability of that combination. I tried my sample of pink wax to top AIO/EXP on my dads light brown metallic car and didn't notice a different in gloss, but it did seem to appear wetter. I will post pictures in a separate thread later on, but I really couldn't tell between the fenders that had only AIO/EXP/FX-100 than the hood which had AIO/EXP/PW. It rained and I noticed that the hood had very small beads, but it all ran off before we got to our destination, so I wasn't able to notice how easily it would run off. I did notice that the hood (with PW) wasn't nearly as slick as the fenders. I also applied 425 to the fenders and not on the hood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

There's maybe a lesson here about getting too worried about something because of what others post

I too have wondered if I was in for buyer's remorse when people were all

about something I'd just ordered, but I've learned to see for myself before second-guessing things too readily.

Very true. I am admitted very addicted to detailing now and am developing my own personal tastes and preferences. Until I fully develop those, I am depending on experiences from those who regularly post here. And since everyone has their own personal tastes, I now tend to pay closer attention to those consistent posters to seem to have similar tastes that I do.

Thanks.

OutlawTitan · 04-03-06, 04:38

I have never had a problem with SG and have used it on light and dark colored cars. It always comes off easy for me leaving it on the paint overnight or wiping it off immediately after application (by the way I can't tell any difference in durability or looks using either of those methods). It is my base for whatever I do.

Before giving up on the looks of the Klasse Twins I would suggest you be sure to clay and polish your car prior to application. IMHO, this makes more difference in the final look you have than the different waxes or sealants you apply after the polsihing step.

Accumulator · 04-03-06, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by drck1000

I do find that SG leaves very tight beading and is probably very durable, I didn't really leave a high gloss or very slick surface. The gloss and slickness can be address, I believe, with some sort of topping...

You might try the FK425. I'm very impressed with it on KSG, adds considerable slickness.

Oh, and FWIW, the vehicles I use KSG on have always been silver, so I know just what you mean about the looks vs. durability.

tlak · 04-03-06, 04:55

I did a lot of reading, I am new to SG, you said you left it to dry for about an hour is that necessary I'm little

. I did 2 coats 24h apart but I wasn't waiting between applications and buffing it off (wowo more or less).

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlak

I did a lot of reading, I am new to SG, you said you left it to dry for about an hour is that necessary I'm little

. I did 2 coats 24h apart but I wasn't waiting between applications and buffing it off (wowo more or less).

Yes, I left it to dry for about an hour before I buffed off. I've read that others to use the WOWO method without any noticable ill effects. I don't think it's necessary to leave for an hour per se, but I thought it would be easier to buff if leaving it on for at least an hour, or about the time I would take to apply to the entire vehicle. The directions that I received with my order recommended buffing after applying to the entire vehicle and even better if left overnight. I was only trying out on the hood panel, so I just waited an hour and it came right off very easy. I also found a spot that I had to reclay, and I reapplied AIO and SG to that section and that time I applied SG by WOWO method and I wasn't able to notice a difference in the beading and I doubt I will be able to tell a difference if that portion doesn't last as long.

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutlawTitan

Before giving up on the looks of the Klasse Twins I would suggest you be sure to clay and polish your car prior to application. IMHO, this makes more difference in the final look you have than the different waxes or sealants you apply after the polsihing step.

Not giving up on it yet. This trial was more or less to see how easy/hard it was to apply and remove and so see how it would bead up. The weather here has been quite rainy and somewhat of a good test on durability. I also don't have a PC, but am thinking about picking up one soon with some polishes by either Menzerna, Poorboy's, Optimum or 1Z.

Even if I don't end up liking the look of SG, I will probably try topping it with UPP or a carnauba if it turns out that I really need/like the durability. I have a sample of Pink Wax that I tried recently and I wasn't able to notice a distinct difference on a light brown metallic car compared to just AIO/EXP/FX-100. So I might try topping with UPP, which I really do like the looks, or might try something like Natty's or another carnauba. P21S, S100 and Souveran I am sure will work well, but not willing to spend that kind of money on some that I may or may not notice a big difference, especially on a silver or other light colored cars.

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accumulator

You might try the FK425. I'm very impressed with it on KSG, adds considerable slickness.

Oh, and FWIW, the vehicles I use KSG on have always been silver, so I know just what you mean about the looks vs. durability.

Cool. I'll try the 425 this afternoon after I get home from work as it's nice and sunny today. The next wash I will probably apply HGAS or FX-100 after washing and see how I like it. I applied Sonus AG after the initial application and didn't notice much difference.

Regarding my silver car, I find that I even like the flatter finish after it's been washed and dried and before applying any QD, so any additional effort in the future may be geared towards making the finish very durable and easy to wash and remove stuff like bird bombs instead of more depth and gloss. While I do enjoy detailing and being able to look at the finished product, it is a lot of effort and takes up a lot of time. Perhaps I should buy a black car and then I'll really have something to compare products!

Super_Herb · 04-03-06, 06:21

I've been using KSG since I first found this site, look at my join date to see how long that's been (back when the hot combo was AIO/KSG/Blitz wax)

. Last fall I got a new car and got all excited and back into detailing products.....PC, SSR polishes, FK1 stuff, etc. so much new stuff that people think I'm obsessive. As if I wasn't before....

I still come back to the KSG as the base due to it's durability. I usually apply it with a mf sponge, wetted with water and wrung out as best I can with my hands. That makes it much easier to apply a thin, thin layer. I think the drying time on KSG all depends on humidity/weather. If it's a 65 degree day with low humidity, it'll buff off easy after 20 minutes of sitting, if it's a 80 degree day and 60% humidity, it might take an hour or more to dry to come off easy. You sorta just learn how to tell.

The biggest thing I've found to make KSG come off easy is using a WW mf to buff it off. I'm enamored with the Sonus WW buffing towels:
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/mf-201.html.

These suckers will buff the KSG off like you wouldn't believe over a normal mf. Anyway, once you figure out KSG, it's not scary at all to use......of course my bottle is getting low and I'll be trying out some of the Werkstatt products next. I think it'll take a lot to replace durability of the AIO/KSGx3/Blitz wax combo I slap on before winter. Since it's now summer though, it's all about looks and less to do with durability, so we'll see what I can come up with using all the new stuff I got like RMG, Pink Wax, FX 100, and the soon to arrive Werkstatt products. Damn, I love spring/summer!

shortspark · 04-03-06, 06:27

I have a new Honda in billit silver and I've used only Klasse AIO and SG. I have been very pleased with the results and have no reason to use anything else. However, I did buy some of Jeff's Jet to compare and I'll do that next month. I love HGAS over the SG and 425 is fine as well. Perhaps my favorite topper QD (and a way to use a little extra SG - which will last me for years) is to dillute 1 part SG to 3 parts distilled water in a mister bottle. It is as good as HGAS and Jeffs AG at a much cheaper price.

drck1000 · 04-03-06, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super_Herb

I think the drying time on KSG all depends on humidity/weather. If it's a 65 degree day with low humidity, it'll buff off easy after 20 minutes of sitting, if it's a 80 degree day and 60% humidity, it might take an hour or more to dry to come off easy. You sorta just learn how to tell.

That's kind of what I was getting at. It was about 80 when I applied and buffed the SG. I would guess that the humidity was at least 70%, but didn't check the weather. I live in Hawaii so it's always humid! I was preparing for a nightmare of a removal process and was pleasantly surprised. Now to see how durable it is as the car that I did the test panel on sits out in the sun all day and doesn't get washed as regularly as our other cars.