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02-07-04, 08:53 #1
Griot's Boar's Hair Wash Brushes (LONG)
It's been over a year since I've posted about these things, and they've come up on other threads. SO...here's my $0.02 and then some:
First, you gotta *INSPECT YOUR BOAR'S HAIR BRUSH BRISTELS FOR ADHESIVE CONTAMINATION. IT WILL SEVERELY MAR YOUR PAINT.* I found it on two (from when they glued in the bristles), sent them back and told them to INSPECT the replacements before sending them! Now I look at mine under magnification before using them.
The biggest concern is probably "will they mar my paint". The answer is "maybe". Would I use them on a freshly polished black car? No. I don't use them on the XJS or my S8. But then it takes me over three hours to wash THOSE cars, using VERY overkill techniques (soap solution siphon-fed through the mitts, etc.). And I still use smaller BHBs for the wheels and the nooks and crannies on EVERY vehicle I wash.
I've checked out the marring potential of these things VERY thoroughly, using highly polished panels, extreme illumination, magnification, etc. The following is based on direct observation, not just conjecture.
Yes, they *CAN* mar certain finishes. SOME paints are just too soft for them. BUT, many clearcoats are NOT too soft; the BHB won't mar them *IF* (and that's a very *BIG* "IF"!!) used correctly. My Mazda, for instance, is always washed with a BHB and after two years of "beater duty", I haven't had to polish it yet! Hardly even any micromarring, and what it does have is random, minor, and isolated. Hard clear on that one! Plus, I don't let it get too dirty and I keep a LOT of SG on it. On Accumulatorette's A8, I'll get a LITTLE marring from washing it with the BHB. About the same as I got with a mitt using normal, Autopian, two-bucket techniques. The sorta barely-noticeable, general stuff that's usually considered inevitable with year-round drivers, nothing a PC and very mild polishes won't remove quickly and easily. I have to polish it every year or so to keep it nice enough for me.
The big problem with BHBs is that people are seduced by the ease with which one can do a quick wash with them. Quick washes with a BHB will usually mar the paint, sometimes quite badly (but usually not too DEEPLY). Gotta exercise self-discipline and use 'em right. The APPARENT advantages (that you can cover a lot of area quickly, that they hold a lot of solution) are actually temptations to fall victim to the BHB's potential PITFALLS.
Biggest problem- dirt doesn't migrate up the bristles or get captured/caught up (away from the paint) as it does with a mitt. It's not that the wet, soap-lubed hair itself is too harsh for most automotive paint. It's the dirt getting dragged across it by the bristles that does the marring.
So if the vehicle is very dirty, and doesn't have protection on it that lets dirt (easily) slide off, marring is probable, perhaps inevitable.
To use a BHB safely: Gotta use a high-lubricity wash solution (slipperier than Gold Class, for instance), and lots of it. I like a pre-soak, too. Gotta just BARELY touch the surface, "whisking" the dirt away with LOTS of solution (I'll sometimes spray wash solution through the brush with a shower-foam gun while doing this if the panel's really dirty). If you're pressing hard enough to really bend the tips of the bristles, you're risking marring- that's NOT the right way to do it. GOTTA rinse the BHB and the panel FREQUENTLY (people try to wash a whole panel without rinsing and redunking the brush in wash solution- bad idea). I always wash/rinse a panel at least twice. I might rinse/dunk the brush four or six times for EACH wash/rinse, too. It doesn't go too fast.
FOr many people, all this might add up to the BHB being no easier to use than a mitt, maybe even more difficult. It's easier *FOR ME* because I've used them for over 20 years and am thus accustomed to them. And *I* just like using a brush better than using a mitt (which I still do on the XJS and the S8).
The only REAL *ADVANTAGE* to the BHB, for most people, is its free-rinsing nature. Dirt just doesn't stick to those bristles the way it can get trapped in a mitt. When I use mitts, I'll use at least four of them per vehicle (only using them on the paint) because there's always some contamination that just doesn't rinse out.
Another BHB application is vehicles that are gonna get polished anyhow. Anthony O. uses them for this. The marring you CAN get from a BHB is seldom anything serious. If you're gonna polish anyhow, you can do a fairly quick wash with them (using the "not recommended" techniques- i.e., normal ones). Then the "apparent advantages" can work in your favor. But if you want to avoid any additional marring, you gotta work at using the CORRECT techniques explained above.Too Many ads? Becoming a member of Autopia has its privileges. Sign up here .
The most interesting man in all of Autopia Land. (<--I didn't enter that!)
02-08-04, 07:22 #2
Heheh, BHB - a new acronym, even though it may not get enough usage to warrant "enshrinement".
Interesting reading on the boar's hair brush. I don't know why I didn't realize this eariler, but I'm attracted to the free-rinsing nature of the BHB. I know that this is always desirable and it's something that I value in my sheepskin mitt over some other material such as chenille.
I wonder if there is any other type of material or hair that would make a proper brush as well... I was thinking of MF but then realized that it doesn't stand up, and I just read Griot's product page and discounted horse hair too. At $70 ( )I don't think I'll be trying this tool out, as convenient it would be for washing things such as my parents' van for instance....Brian
02-09-04, 04:35 #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Music City, TN
I have used the OXO brush on my wife's white SUV (AIO & SG) for 2 years now and have not seen any evidence of any damage. I don't know if there really is no damage or if it is because of the color not showing any micromarring. Actually I have been very impressed with this brush and it still looks brand new.....but I have still been afraid to use it on my own car which is a dark grey color. I may do that this spring when the weather breaks before I do the big clay and polish routine.
02-09-04, 06:17 #4
NozeBleedSpeed- Nope, haven't tried it. As you might've seen on some other posts, I always brushes with plastic bristles. This is a personal preference of mine, based on my experiences with plastic-bristle wheel brushes from TOL.
Said brushes had VERY soft, flagged-tip bristles. Worked great, no marring (on the hard, thick clear) on the wheels I was cleaning. BUT the flagging wore away, VERY gradually, so slowly as to be imperceptible. I didn't notice it until they marred the clearcoat on a wheel. The flagging was still there, just worn down enough (on enough bristles) that they marred. I've stuck with boar's hair since then.
Even the BHBs eventually wear down to where their bristle tips aren't as gentle as they once were. This takes many years, though, and I keep the old ones (over 20 years old) for cars that're gonna get aggressively compounded anyhow.
Heh heh, I find it interesting and sorta that I'm so paranoid about SOME sources of marring, yet I use the BHB even though I know *IT* will sometimes mar if I'm not careful enough. I guess it's just too much of a hassle to use methods that I *KNOW* are safe. I don't drive the S8 as much as I'd like because the safe cleaning methods are such a time-consuming hassleThe most interesting man in all of Autopia Land. (<--I didn't enter that!)
02-09-04, 09:00 #5
Originally posted by Accumulator
Heh heh, I find it interesting and sorta that I'm so paranoid about SOME sources of marring, yet I use the BHB even though I know *IT* will sometimes mar if I'm not careful enough. I guess it's just too much of a hassle to use methods that I *KNOW* are safe. I don't drive the S8 as much as I'd like because the safe cleaning methods are such a time-consuming hassle
I'm really tempted to get this brush shown below to use on my wheels. I still haven't found a brush with bristles long enough to my liking....
Also, I wonder if this brush would be a good alternative to Autopians currently living under a blanket of snow.... No need to get your hands wet... Wet Hands = Fingers turning to popsicles... However, according to Ripsnort, who is another GG's fan, this brush has bristles that are slightly stiffer than the regular BHB...
02-09-04, 11:02 #6
Intermezzo- Yeah, sorta weird about my use of the BHB! I sure do like using it better than the mitts, though. I sometimes wonder- if I switched to a mitt, and DID *NOT* employ my overkill, siphon-through-mitt methods (just used it like a normal Autopian), would I get less marring on the two or three cars that DO get it? Might have to experiment some time, though only having to polish a few of my cars with something like PI-III MG/ 1Z PP once a year isn't too bad
And perhaps my recent experiments of blasting wash solution through the BHB with my showerfoam gun will work out. Though it's sure not easy to do on the roof, hood, etc.
Your pic link isn't working at the moment. Let's see if I'm psychic If it's the Griot's flow-through brush, I can comment (and if not, well, here I go anyhow). In fact, using one of those is where I got the idea to pump water/wash solution through the mitt when I wash the S8 or Jag.
I used a flow-through brush on my pewter C5 for the first pass. Then regular BHBs for the follow-ups. *I* never had a problem with it, BUT that car got washed after almost every drive. It was never really dirty. And I was *VERY* careful to just barely touch the paint. More a case of flooding it with water/wash solution than one of "brushing" it. Didn't work NEARLY as well when I tried it on the dirty Volvo, so *I* don't think it would work too well for most people.
It was surprisingly awkward to use. NOT easy at all, IMO, quite the opposite, as I recall. Who woulda thunk it?
That brush developed leakage problems (at the swivel joint), so I sent it back. The replacement they sent seems to have much coarser bristles, probably like what RipSnort got. I'm not comfortable using it, so it's just sitting here. I forgot about it when I did my big >$300 return, and I don't think I'm gonna send it back now. I might use it on loaner cars or around the house, or something like that.
*I* would say that it's too coarse for body paint, not firm enough for wheels. And it's seemingly long bristles don't seem to really get in where you want them to.
The Griot's BHBs for wheels (with the smaller ones for tight spots) work about as well as anything, but again, that's just IMO.The most interesting man in all of Autopia Land. (<--I didn't enter that!)
02-09-04, 11:29 #7
- Join Date
- Feb 2003
Thanks for the write up! VERY informative since I just purchased the Griots BHB. I've always used the 2 bucket method and will continue to do so with the BHB.
I'm anxious to try it out.
I'll be sure to check it very carefully before I use it.
02-09-04, 11:40 #8
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Dallas, TX
02-09-04, 01:23 #9
:scared It's probably just psychological for me but the thought of using any kind of brush on my paint makes me cringe. I'm satisifed with sheepskin mitts for now.Unsuccessful at converting my neighbors to Autopians
Treat it like it's the only one in the world.
02-09-04, 02:33 #10
Spilchy- Assuming you don't get a contaminated one, just watch for an increase in wash-induced marring. I sure don't want anyone to mess up their paint! If it doesn't work out for you, send it back and tell 'em that it marred your finish.
ccreamer - It looks like the same thing to me. Boar/hog/pig, pretty much the same critter IMO. Oh, BTW, you never got back to me about those 4" MF pads. If you want 'em, let me know, if not, that's cool too (I'm sending some stuff back to TOL and will just put them in there too).
Bill D- Heh heh, I don't blame you! Whatever *YOU* like using, that gives *YOU* the results that *YOU* want, is the right thing for *YOU* Note that I don't use the brushes on my "good" cars either Though I DID use them on some nice ones and didn't have a problem.
With all this BHB talk, I now remember that someone (a pro Autopian, can't remember who it was) tested a BHB on a black BMW and found that it did NOT mar the finish. I wanna say it was Scottwax, but I just don't remember.The most interesting man in all of Autopia Land. (<--I didn't enter that!)
03-11-06, 05:36 #11
thanks accumulator, I have been pondering.
I want a handle though. http://store.yahoo.com/autopia/oxo-17005.html not crazy about
wet hands when I have the option of dry ones. I know it's synthetic, but I'll bet the quality
is pretty high.
03-11-06, 05:43 #12
Well I'm turned away.
Nice write up, though. You must really have your wash methods down.
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