Zymöl Vintage... what do you charge?

[Apollo_Auto]

Scott and Jake:

If the customer doesn't ask what wax I'll be using I always ask them. If I polish or wax a car I always tell them that the wax in that package is a very basic wax that offers moderate protection and so on. Then I explain to them what carnauba is and then show them two or three waxes that I would recommend for their car/color. Those 2-3 are usually a high/med/low cost ranging anywhere from +$20 (Dodo for example) to +$80 (Concorso or SN). Maybe I have an advantage being the only Autopian style detailer in the country (besides Bence) and being the only one that offers high-grade waxes, but people do pay these prices and some don't even ask. I guess upselling has followed me from my many years as a salesman and I'm glad for that because it makes me a lot of extra $$. Aside from the customers that are having their cars cleaned to be sold, I haven't missed an upsell yet .

[MDRX8]

Based on the above I'd charge $100 upcharge. If you apply by using your hands as recommended you could charge more because of the labor involved. Massaging in Vintage is a neat experience.

[CocheseUGA]

Originally Posted by GoudyL

Why not? If you look at the patent for TW Ice it's clearly a very advanced formulation. Very much suitable for an Enzo, or any other car worthy of it.

(WO/2007/126773) LIQUID POLISHING COMPOSITION AND KIT

* Silicone grafted carnauba wax.
* Silicone co-polymers
* Hyperbranched Poly-alpha olefin wax.
* PDMS Oils
* Amino silicone fluids
* Hydrophobic silica nanoparticles.



To be perfectly honest, I would gladly bet a TW Ice Paste polishing kit, vs Lucite Cube of Zymol Vintage that given equal surface preparation, a car polished with properly applied TW Ice paste (e.g Applied, hazed, and then sprayed with Ice QD before buffing) would either not be distinguished from or even preferred to Zymol Vintage by a blind panel of judges.

I picked TW Ice purely at random. I have no experience with it, but I assume most pro detailers here aren't using it.

And for the last bit, I agree. I think the people defending it without using it are simply buying into the hype and price point.

[Danase]

Originally Posted by David Fermani

Pictures on the internet shouldn't support anyone's decision to buy a LSP. Pictures show nothing and anyone that thinks so is naive. You could have many of the Pro Detailers on detail forums take pictures with their big dollar cameras of an unpolished or waxed car and have it look like it just came out of a 100 hour detail and sealed with $8400 Royal.

I agree. I look at a lot of motorcycles on ebay that look like they just rolled off the line and when I go to take a look in person they look like someone sanded them with a brick and left it.

[Less]

David Fermani - I listed several other reasons why I bought Fuzion besides pictures. And besides, your argument only holds water if you assume that everyone posting pictures is doing so in a sinister attempt to mislead potential buyers of a particular product. I chose Fuzion for many reasons, but I never said "It costs more, so it must be better"

And I'm shocked at the sentiment throughout this thread that people with money are so stupid. My favorite quote so far is this one from GoudyL

"There are lots of rich people who are very stupid, especially when it comes to money"

Sure maybe there's some. But this kind of broad, sweeping, generalization about people who EARN thousands and millions of dollars through hard work and business savvy is completely and absolutely assinine.

And CocheseUGA, this thread, and others have listed dozens of reasons that contribute to the higher price of Zymol. Just because they aren't important to YOU, doesn't mean that they aren't important to anyone. I don't know why you insist that everyone should think like YOU or have the same opinion as YOU, or value the same things that YOU do. But you need to get over yourself.

Just because someone has money and chooses to spend it on something differently than you would if you actually had the money yourself doesn't make them stupid. If you're so smart, why aren't you rich enough to blow two grand on wax?

Finally, I'm going to repeat my main argument one more time. And it's not an opinion, it's indisputable economic fact.

ZYMOL VINTAGE IS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, AND IN ALL OTHER WAYS WORTH EVERY CENT THAT THEY CHARGE FOR IT.

Why? Simply put; BECAUSE PEOPLE BUY IT.

If it didn't have $2100 worth of value to SOME people out there, they wouldn't sell a single tub. The fact is that they do sell it, and have for over 50 years.

The sentiment that every single customer who bought Vintage is stupid is ridiculous. It would be pretty tough for Zymol to build a business on Trust Fund Babies who don't understand the value of a dollar. MOST of their customers are people who have EARNED enough money through hard work, education, and financial savvy, to be able to spend $2 g's on wax.

Just because you aren't one of them, doesn't mean that they're all stupid.

[Jakerooni]

Less I think your getting all bent out of shape over an opinion that in the end just dosen't matter. You're spouting off telling people that see this as a stupid and foolish purchase to get over themselves because we don't see things the way "Rich" people obviously do... Yet you're doing the exact same thing. We are all entitled to our opinion. The fact that I would never drop $2100 on a wax isn't going to put zymol out of business. The fact that you would if you could isn't going to save their business. It's just a difference of opinion nothing more.

[EisenHulk]

Great minds think alike? I was thinking an additional $100 as well.

Jesse,

Whatever you decided to charge, I'm sure will be fine. Your work speaks for itself. If I'm bringing my new 16M (Hypothetically speaking, of course) to you, and you try to sell me on an additional $100 for one of the world's elite waxes...I'm probably going to say, do it. That's because I've probably done my homework, and heard through the grapevine that your work is second to none.

I'm looking forward to the review.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by MDRX8

Based on the above I'd charge $100 upcharge. If you apply by using your hands as recommended you could charge more because of the labor involved. Massaging in Vintage is a neat experience.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

Less I think your getting all bent out of shape over an opinion that in the end just dosen't matter. You're spouting off telling people that see this as a stupid and foolish purchase to get over themselves because we don't see things the way "Rich" people obviously do... Yet you're doing the exact same thing. We are all entitled to our opinion. The fact that I would never drop $2100 on a wax isn't going to put zymol out of business. The fact that you would if you could isn't going to save their business. It's just a difference of opinion nothing more.

I see your point Jake, but that's not why I'm bent out of shape.

I'm bent out of shape because people aren't saying "It's not worth it to me". they are saying "It's not worth it to me, and shouldn't be worth it to anyone. And if it is worth it to you, then you're stupid".

It's such an ignorant argument, and it frustrates me beyond belief.

This really isn't a question of how much carnuaba is enough, or what kind of oils make a car look better. It really boils down to two things.

1) Simple economics. A product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Therefore, Vintage IS ABSOLUTELY worth $2,100, and not a penny less.

2) Basic human psychology. It's the same whether we're talking about a Caddy vs Chevy, bottled water vs tap water, or Turtle wax vs Zymol. The percieved "wastefulness" of the higher priced product is simply that: perception. Those who are the "have-not's" tend to over-value what they have, and consequently de-value what others have as a means to cope with their own insecurity and envy.

Note: #2 above is not my opinion. It's my wife's. She holds a master's degree AND a Doctorate in psychology to go along with her 10+ years of clinical experience.

There is no published ingredient by ingredient comparison of Turtle wax vs Zymol, nor is there an objective scientific test to determine the comparitive durability, slickness, ease of use, etc. Therefore, in the absence of that kind of scientific comparison, this whole argument centers around one thing: JEALOUSY.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Danase

You don't HAVE to read it. Nobody's holding a jar of Zymol to your head.

That's going in my sig...

Originally Posted by Picus

This topic is new and exciting.

For sure! Nice to see a "never been beat to death" topic like this, ain't it?

Originally Posted by Less

I see your point Jake, but that's not why I'm bent out of shape.

I'm bent out of shape because people aren't saying "It's not worth it to me". they are saying "It's not worth it to me, and shouldn't be worth it to anyone. And if it is worth it to you, then you're stupid"..

I like that bold part a lot.

Vintage is good wax. Breitling is a good watch. Ferrari is a good car.

But then again, so is Collinite, Casio, and Toyota.

There's a perfect fit for everyone; no need to degrade, brow beat, or get angry over what anyone chooses as the right fit for them.

[02zx9r]

It is not worth it to me, so I am not going to buy it. If it is worth it to you, then you can buy it, just know that if you do, you are stupid

[Apollo_Auto]

Originally Posted by EisenHulk

Great minds think alike? I was thinking an additional $100 as well.

Jesse,

Whatever you decided to charge, I'm sure will be fine. Your work speaks for itself. If I'm bringing my new 16M (Hypothetically speaking, of course) to you, and you try to sell me on an additional $100 for one of the world's elite waxes...I'm probably going to say, do it. That's because I've probably done my homework, and heard through the grapevine that your work is second to none.

I'm looking forward to the review.

Cheers!

Thanks Hulk! I would too pay an extra $100 too .

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by 02zx9r

It is not worth it to me, so I am not going to buy it. If it is worth it to you, then you can buy it, just know that if you do, you are stupid

says the person with a ZX-9r? Now would this be the train of thought of "you spend money on expensive things so you're stupid", or more like purchasing an extremely dangerous vehicle with no safety equipment as a mode of transportation (a bike) stupid?

You see how stupid can get stupid pretty fast right? You like sport-bikes (i'm going to jump to that conclusion from your name) which are pretty damn stupid according to some people for good reason. But if you enjoy them, and think of a bike as money well spent with no regrets, are you still stupid?

How about if rather than a Honda Civic Si, I buy a new Ducati 1098: am I stupid?
How about if rather than a Ducati 1098, I purchase two ZX-9's?
How about if rather than by a ZX-9, I purchase a ZX-6 AND Zymol Vintage? Am I stupid?

+1 to "Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it."