Zymöl Vintage... what do you charge?

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I'm noticing a common thread in all of these arguments. They all seem to be founded upon the assumption that rich people are willing to pay for a name, status, or flashy packaging without any real tangible benefits. I think the assumption that rich people are that stupid, and so willing to throw their money away is ridiculous.

There actually IS a big difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy. And there IS a big difference between a Rolex and a Seiko. And I'm willing to bet that there IS a difference between Zymol and other waxes.

Do you really think that Zymol just opened up one day and decided "We're going to market this wax to rich people who don't know any better so we can make more money". It's absurd.

Apollo, we had this discussion before. You charge $X to detail a ferrari. While some guy down the street charges something less to detail a BMW. While yet another guy charges even less to detail a Ford. (This isn't always the case, but generally speaking, I think we can all agree that the cost of a detail goes up as the value of the car goes up). Why does that happen?

Because the Ferrari owner HAS more money to spend, and is willing to spend it when he thinks his detailing dollar will get him more value. However, in return, he has the right to be more discriminating with the products and services that he chooses. He has the right to expect a higher quality of goods and services since he is paying more. Therefore, as a detailer, your quality of work, service, and reputation EARNED you the job. Therefore, you've EARNED a higher rate than the other guy. The client, through research and referrals, knows this and therefore is comfortable paying more because he KNOWS that he's getting a higher quality service.

The same goes for Zymol. They didn't just decide one day that their wax was better than the others and to charge more. Personally, I don't know what makes their wax better, but it must be something to do with their quality standards, levels of service, and proprietary formulas that EARNED them the right to charge $2100 for a tub of wax.

This is why I made my point previously about being able to answer the question when your client asks you "Why does this wax cost more".

I doubt very much that there are people out there, with the money to buy a Ferrari, who are simply dumb enough to say "I just want the most expensive, and therefore BEST, product money can buy". It's simply naive to think that just because someone has the money, means that they will spend it.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Danase

But I can promise that the majority of the people buying these waxes are buying them because..."it cost so much it must be the best..."

Sorry, but that is ridiculous.

I'm not Ferrari-owner rich, but I have some disposable income and I like to spend it on detailing products. Over the years, I've used a myriad of different LSP's on my cars and there absolutely IS a difference between my $0.50/oz jar of Turtle Wax, and my $16/oz jar of Fuzion.

But I didn't just buy Fuzion because I said to myself "It costs more so it must be better". I did research on detailing forums. I looked at pictures from people who used it. I've done enough business with Autogeek and PBMA to know firsthand that they are a reputable company. Therefore, I feel comfortable believing their claims like:

The super polymers reinforce carnauba’s natural defense and promote maximum bonding to the paint.

Füzion repels water, dirt, dust, oil, and resists smudges and fingerprints.

Going further, I purchased a sample jar and tested it for myself. My results supported their claims.

So basically, I had enough money so that I could allocate more towards car wax than the average person might be able to. However, spending that money earned me the right to be more discriminating with my choice of product. Through research, referrals, testimonials, and my own testing, I decided that this particular product was worth the extra money.

That's why I made my original point in my first post in this thread. When the client asks you "Why does this wax cost more?" you had better have a good answer. The idea that someone is going to pay more just because they can and it makes them feel good is simply ridiculous.

Yes, there are people like that out there. But I doubt that there are enough of them for you to make your money back on a $2100 Zymol investment.

[Danase]

Ridiculous? Read post #15. There is one example right there.

"Not sure about the durability of it, but I'm sure it's got to be longer than the average wax on the market. I mean other than putting an absurd price tag on it they must have something other than a swanky box to justify the price, no? ....."

Originally Posted by Less

Sorry, but that is ridiculous.

I'm not Ferrari-owner rich, but I have some disposable income and I like to spend it on detailing products. Over the years, I've used a myriad of different LSP's on my cars and there absolutely IS a difference between my $0.50/oz jar of Turtle Wax, and my $16/oz jar of Fuzion.

But I didn't just buy Fuzion because I said to myself "It costs more so it must be better". I did research on detailing forums. I looked at pictures from people who used it. I've done enough business with Autogeek and PBMA to know firsthand that they are a reputable company. Therefore, I feel comfortable believing their claims like:

The super polymers reinforce carnauba’s natural defense and promote maximum bonding to the paint.

Füzion repels water, dirt, dust, oil, and resists smudges and fingerprints.

Going further, I purchased a sample jar and tested it for myself. My results supported their claims.

So basically, I had enough money so that I could allocate more towards car wax than the average person might be able to. However, spending that money earned me the right to be more discriminating with my choice of product. Through research, referrals, testimonials, and my own testing, I decided that this particular product was worth the extra money.

That's why I made my original point in my first post in this thread. When the client asks you "Why does this wax cost more?" you had better have a good answer. The idea that someone is going to pay more just because they can and it makes them feel good is simply ridiculous.

Yes, there are people like that out there. But I doubt that there are enough of them for you to make your money back on a $2100 Zymol investment.

[Jakerooni]

Originally Posted by Less

The same goes for Zymol. They didn't just decide one day that their wax was better than the others and to charge more. Personally, I don't know what makes their wax better, but it must be something to do with their quality standards, levels of service, and proprietary formulas that EARNED them the right to charge $2100 for a tub of wax.

This is why I made my point previously about being able to answer the question when your client asks you "Why does this wax cost more".

I doubt very much that there are people out there, with the money to buy a Ferrari, who are simply dumb enough to say "I just want the most expensive, and therefore BEST, product money can buy". It's simply naive to think that just because someone has the money, means that they will spend it.

I beleive with every ounce of my detailing skills this is exactly what happened. Other wise in all the years of this stupid arguement going on you would think at least one person would have the answers to exactly WHY Zymol is better. The closest anyone has ever come is "Well it contains enzymes... blah blah blah" Which was quickly shown to be a "So what" arguement and proven it really didn't add to anything.. (Just like the whole "you have to use you hands to activate the enzymes... blah blah" garbage) They marketed it right. But that's all it is.. 100%. Is it a quality wax? Absolutly But I wouldn't put it above any other "Quality" wax out there. I wouldn't says it's any better than P21S, SN, Fuzion, etc etc.. I've never seen any C&B that used Vintage or any other zymol product that stood out to wher you can easily say "Wow you can really tell that's Zymol on that paint" Because it's just not any different or any better than any other decent quality wax out there... Marketing pure and simple and look at just how well it worked

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Originally Posted by Danase

Ridiculous? Read post #15. There is one example right there.

"Not sure about the durability of it, but I'm sure it's got to be longer than the average wax on the market. I mean other than putting an absurd price tag on it they must have something other than a swanky box to justify the price, no? ....."

As I said, there are some people out there that think this way. This is just ONE example.

And it's not really a good example because the person saying this is REALLY far removed from the average ferrari/lambo/bentley owner. No offense to Mr. Apollo_Auto, but he doesn't know what it's like to have the money to spend on the purchase and maintenance of a $200K+ car. So to say that his opinion represents the opinions of the wealthy super-car owner is inaccurate.

Furthermore, Apollo's interest in Zymol is as a business investment on which he intends to make a profit. Not as a detailing client trying to make an informed decision on how to allocate disposable income. So you have to consider the different perspectives there.

Finally, you'll remember that I was critical of the exact post to which you refer, as being very naive and uninformed. Again, I doubt that this is representative of of Mr. Apollo's clientele.

Look, I'm sure we can all point to a time in our lives when we spent a little more money for a something because we thought that the price represented higher quality, but we didn't really understand what we were paying for. For me, it was the time I bought a Hyunda Santa Fe. I paid an extra few thousand dollars for the premium package with leather seats, CD changer, heated seats, etc. And ultimately, after a few months I realized that I just threw money away on what is still just a cheaply made, uncomfortable car with no resale value.

But I'm sure those instances are far outnumbered by teh times when we went the extra mile to be a little more discriminating with our disposable income. Again, for me, I can remember the time I spent an extra $900 on a lawnmower. I bought a John Deere tractor from a JD dealer as opposed to buying a Deere (same brand) from the lowes down the street. In return for my additional investment, I got an engine from a manufacturer that I was familiar with and knew as having a good reputation (briggs & stratton). The lowe's model didn't specify the engine manufacturer, but it definitely wasn't B&S. I got a few more HP, a cushier seat, wheel bearings instead of bushings, and a plethora of little upgrades that convinced me that I was making a sound investment.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe the idea that wealthy people's spending habits are ruled by an uninformed, naive, perception that price = quality.

[Danase]

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

I beleive with every ounce of my detailing skills this is exactly what happened. Other wise in all the years of this stupid arguement going on you would think at least one person would have the answers to exactly WHY Zymol is better. The closest anyone has ever come is "Well it contains enzymes... blah blah blah" Which was quickly shown to be a "So what" arguement and proven it really didn't add to anything.. (Just like the whole "you have to use you hands to activate the enzymes... blah blah" garbage) They marketed it right. But that's all it is.. 100%. Is it a quality wax? Absolutly But I wouldn't put it above any other "Quality" wax out there. I wouldn't says it's any better than P21S, SN, Fuzion, etc etc.. I've never seen any C&B that used Vintage or any other zymol product that stood out to wher you can easily say "Wow you can really tell that's Zymol on that paint" Because it's just not any different or any better than any other decent quality wax out there... Marketing pure and simple and look at just how well it worked

You want an excellent example of this. Look at how much bottled water is sold per year. You won't find a test that shows that bottled water is better than the water in your faucet. But yet people pay more for it than gas. And look how many "high end" expensive brands of water there is on the market and look how well they sell. I could bottle water right now from my sink. Put them in two identical bottles. Sell one for $2.00 and one for $5.00 and I'll promise I'll sell more of the $5.00 bottle in most cases.

There was just a study similar to this. People were given two identical television remote controls. One had some lead weight in it. Everyone said they'd buy the heavier one because the lighter one "felt cheap". it;s why if you bust open an ipod and most small electronics you'll find useless weights in it to make it feel heavier.

It's ALL marketing.

[Less]

Jake,

I see your point. Good marketing does go a LONG way.

But....

Just because Zymol doesn't share too many details about their proprietary formula, doesn't mean that their claims are untrue. Just because you can't prove them right, doesn't make them wrong.

Second, Vintage was developed in 1947. I wasn't alive back then, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't any internet where detailers could get together and share ideas and experiences on different waxes. I'm also pretty sure that the average car enthusiasts options for car waxes was alot more limited than it is now. You couldn't just google "car wax" and be presented with ever brand and formula known to man. Back then they had to rely on trade publications, car shows, and word of mouth. So when you build a successful business when you're limited to those avenues of marketing, then it's probably safe to say that your product is pretty damn good.

Also, just go on teh Zymol website and it specifically spells out what makes their Vintage wax better than the competition. I won't repeat everything it says but "61% Brazillian No. 1 White Carnauba by volume, the highest in any automotive finish protective product." That's a pretty bold claim to make about a product that costs about 10x most of its competition. Until someone can prove it false, I think we have to assume its true.

Zymol also references many other ingredients. I'm not a chemist so I don't really know why these ingredients were included, or what they actually do for car paint. But if I was about to drop two g's on car wax, I would probably ask why my car needs Canteloupe oil, and I would expect an informed answer.

[MDRX8]

HeHe I am happy with my Vintage. I have used many waxes and sealants. I can say I do beleive it is 61% nuba by volume. Let it dry overnight on your car and it is hard as a brick to remove. In one occassion I was getting a refill. It was poured into the container but they did not like the quality. So they corrected the quality problem. It would have been just as easy for Zymol to let it go out and probably no one would have known. I'll be the first one to tell you if I get a refill that is not up to my standards.

[Less]

Danase, it's not ALL marketing. You're points about the remote control and the ipod are well taken. However, for every product you can name where marketing justifies a higher price, I can name a product where quality justifies a higher price.

Just look at batteries. An energizer battery is heavier than it's generic brethren. It's not because of added weights. It actually DOES last longer.

Also, I really don't buy your agrument about bottle water. There IS a test that can show that bottled water is better than tap water. I can take my tap water to a lab and know exactly which minerals are in it, and how much. I can do the same with tap water. If you're fortunate enough to live somewhere that has clean tap water, than good for you. And you're right, you would be stupid to buy it bottled. But there are some very industrialized communities where the water supply is so polluted that it's not even safe to shower.

If I recall correctly from some other threads in which you've posted, your professional occupation is somehow related to the engineering of public water supplies. Am I right? If so, I find your claim that tap water and bottle water are the same to be quite surprising.

Aquafina was criticized recently because people believed that it was "spring" water when in actuality, it was just tap water purchased from a public water supply. Immediately after, they launched an ad campaign where they explained their 7-step filtration process and how it removed harmful chemicals and minerals leaving only clean pure water to drink. Again, this can easily be tested at thousands of facilities nationwide. I have to believe that some consumer advocacy group shelled out the $35 to have the water tested to see if these claims were true. Since nothing more came of it, I have to assume that it's legit.

Furthermore, when you go to the store to buy Aquafina, if you look right next to it, you'll see some bottled water with your local store's logo. It's cheaper. But it doesn't claim to have a 7-step filtration process. It doesn't claim to come from any natural spring. If those things don't mean anything to you, then go ahead and buy the cheaper stuff. But those things DO mean something to some people, and they have the money to spend on certainty.

Again, it's just another example of someone with more disposable income, exercising their right to more discriminating in their choice of products.

[MDRX8]

On another ocassion I waited 8 weeks for a refill because they could not obtain the quality of nuba they needed. Again they probably could have gotten a sub-standard wax and probably no one would have noticed. Jakerooni, you can't have a 100% nuba product.

[CocheseUGA]

I'm still wondering what makes it worth the money.

[Jakerooni]

Originally Posted by MDRX8

On another ocassion I waited 8 weeks for a refill because they could not obtain the quality of nuba they needed. Again they probably could have gotten a sub-standard wax and probably no one would have noticed. Jakerooni, you can't have a 100% nuba product.

I know but it dosen't stop people from making the claims.. Which was actually the entire point... Just cuz it's claimed dosen't make it true.. and even if true doesn't make it any better than anything else...