Zymöl Vintage... what do you charge? - Page 10

Less · 07-02-09, 09:42

Jake, your % carnauba argument has been explained in this thread and others many many times.

I think it's pretty much common knowledge that the 100% 'nubas refer to the wax content. In other words, 100% of the wax used is carnauba. They don't use montan or beeswax, or any other wax.

ZV's claim is 61% by volume. That means, just over 13 of the 22 total ounces are pure carnauba wax.

Also, this quote bugs me:

"I've personally compared these to the $100+ waxes I've gotten to sample and it's simply no concernable difference and thus a waste of money to spend the big dollars."

You're presenting your opinion as fact. It's entirely possible that someone may see a difference where you see none. And, as I've mentioned, there are often intangible factors that determine price and have a value to SOME people (ie. packaging, refills, brand recognition, piece of mind, customer service, etc.). Furthermore, your conclusion that big dollar waxes are a "waste" of money is YOUR opinion, based on your own perceived utility of money.

Like others in this thread, you've also fallen into the trap where you're presenting your own opinions as fact as a means to cope with your own insecurities.

Dsoto87 · 07-02-09, 09:49

I need to find that thread where over a certain percentage, the wax is just unusable.

I think its from ben @ rubbishboys.

I'm not on any side, but its funny how hard you argue from one side when you've never even used the product

Less · 07-02-09, 09:59

Congratulations Goudy, you finally made a sensible argument. Though you've continued to hurt your own credibility by calling me incompetent; albeit in a roundabout way. There's even another knock at my penis in there.

I think this is an interesting debate. Let's try and handle it like adults.

Less · 07-02-09, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

I'm not on any side, but its funny how hard you argue from one side when you've never even used the product

And it's funny how hard you insist on making this about the PRODUCT.

It's not about the product. It's a question of economics, cost accounting, and human behavior.

Apollo_Auto · 07-02-09, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

I need to find that thread where over a certain percentage, the wax is just unusable.

I think its from ben @ rubbishboys.

I'm not on any side, but its funny how hard you argue from one side when you've never even used the product

It's 70%

After that it's hard as a brick...

Less · 07-02-09, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo_Auto

It's 70%

After that emulsion is impossible...

If that's true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then why did Zymol only use 61% for their Vintage wax?

Maybe Goudy knows, since he's the resident expert on chemical manufacturing

I'll venture a guess though.

Maybe because they found that at 70%, they saw some degradation in other aspects of the wax's utility. Perhaps it was more difficult to apply. Perhaps it's shelf life was affected. Perhaps it didn't interact with teh other ingredients in a desirable way.

Who knows? Zymol probably does. I doubt very much they just pulled 61% out of a hat. That's the kind of thing you figure out through diligent scientific testing. The kind of testing that costs money. the kind of money a company might want to recoup by charging more for their product.

Jakerooni · 07-03-09, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Also, this quote bugs me:

"I've personally compared these to the $100+ waxes I've gotten to sample and it's simply no concernable difference and thus a waste of money to spend the big dollars."

You're presenting your opinion as fact. It's entirely possible that someone may see a difference where you see none. And, as I've mentioned, there are often intangible factors that determine price and have a value to SOME people (ie. packaging, refills, brand recognition, piece of mind, customer service, etc.). Furthermore, your conclusion that big dollar waxes are a "waste" of money is YOUR opinion, based on your own perceived utility of money.

Like others in this thread, you've also fallen into the trap where you're presenting your own opinions as fact as a means to cope with your own insecurities.

Less. I'm going to go out on a limb here and put this out there for all to see. You say I'm using my own opinion as fact and it shouldn't be listened too because we all have our own opinions. However I'm a professional that has been doing this for many years now. I've seen a LOT of products come and go through my hands. If your sick and you go see a Dr. and he tells you after a quick examination that it's nothing go home and just sleep it off is that just an opinion of a trained professional? Do you then just go home and sleep it off or do you book appointments with dr's until you find one that tells you something you want to hear?

Now it may be my opinion. But my opinion is based on years of experience of what I've seen work and what I've seen is nothing more than hype. Not just weekend warrior stuff. And I see a lot of the other professionals seem to have the same or very simliar opinons as me. Now I've never stated Zymol didn't work. It is a quality product from all rights. However as my opinion of being a professional in this business for many years Zymol's price tag is nothing more than Hype because it's not any better than most other quality waxes on the market. I don;t feel the opinions of the professionals on this board should be tossed aside so easily just because they are opinions. There are a lot on this board that are sponsored or somehow represented by certian companies that may pitch those instead but I assure you I'm not one of those. My opinion is completely unbiased and based on my own testing of what has came through my doors. Zymol simply isn't any better than any other quality wax out there. If you can't see why then we'll just agree to disagree from this point on.

CocheseUGA · 07-03-09, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

Less. I'm going to go out on a limb here and put this out there for all to see. You say I'm using my own opinion as fact and it shouldn't be listened too because we all have our own opinions. However I'm a professional that has been doing this for many years now. I've seen a LOT of products come and go through my hands. If your sick and you go see a Dr. and he tells you after a quick examination that it's nothing go home and just sleep it off is that just an opinion of a trained professional? Do you then just go home and sleep it off or do you book appointments with dr's until you find one that tells you something you want to hear?

Now it may be my opinion. But my opinion is based on years of experience of what I've seen work and what I've seen is nothing more than hype. Not just weekend warrior stuff. And I see a lot of the other professionals seem to have the same or very simliar opinons as me. Now I've never stated Zymol didn't work. It is a quality product from all rights. However as my opinion of being a professional in this business for many years Zymol's price tag is nothing more than Hype because it's not any better than most other quality waxes on the market. I don;t feel the opinions of the professionals on this board should be tossed aside so easily just because they are opinions. There are a lot on this board that are sponsored or somehow represented by certian companies that may pitch those instead but I assure you I'm not one of those. My opinion is completely unbiased and based on my own testing of what has came through my doors. Zymol simply isn't any better than any other quality wax out there. If you can't see why then we'll just agree to disagree from this point on.

Based on your professional experience, cost not being a factor, where would it be ranked compared to others?

02zx9r · 07-03-09, 07:09

Seems to me that Jakerooni clearly said in "his" opinion and experiences, it is not worht it. He did not say it was not worth it for everyone else, as did others, in their opinions.

Not everyone has a PhD in their corner to give them big words to use and how to say stuff.

Jakerooni · 07-03-09, 07:31

CocheseUGA From what I've seen I would easily put it up there with any other quality wax. But you can get the same results out of a $100 tub of wax as you can out of there wax.

I'll swing this around and see if I can help make sense of it all.

I'm not saying to not buy ZV. If you have the chops to do so go for it. But buy it because you love Zymol Products, You love what the company stands for, You think the presitige of having the name on the label means you can upcharge the customers (very good business mind you regardless of opinion) for the presitige of having that name on your car. Buy it for all the advantages you can think of owning a $2100 tub of wax will bring you. But DON'T buy it thinking it's any better than 99% of the other quality waxes out there. Don't get fooled into that foly. If it is any better the differences is so minute that side by side comparions I will most certianly say you'd never be able to tell the difference. If you like it and have the cash to splurge on it... Go for it.. Zymol will love you for it..

SuperBee364 · 07-03-09, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerooni

CocheseUGA From what I've seen I would easily put it up there with any other quality wax. But you can get the same results out of a $100 tub of wax as you can out of there wax.

I'll swing this around and see if I can help make sense of it all.

I'm not saying to not buy ZV. If you have the chops to do so go for it. But buy it because you love Zymol Products, You love what the company stands for, You think the presitige of having the name on the label means you can upcharge the customers (very good business mind you regardless of opinion) for the presitige of having that name on your car. Buy it for all the advantages you can think of owning a $2100 tub of wax will bring you. But DON'T buy it thinking it's any better than 99% of the other quality waxes out there. Don't get fooled into that foly. If it is any better the differences is so minute that side by side comparions I will most certianly say you'd never be able to tell the difference. If you like it and have the cash to splurge on it... Go for it.. Zymol will love you for it..

There are several of us that have (for the most part) been hiding in the background, not offering our experiences/opinions for fear of furthering the flame war. Well, I can't stand it any more.

I'm going to say the following things, and you guys are welcome to discuss it and flame it til you're blue in the face. I'm not gonna respond or say anything more than the following...

Vintage *is* really good wax. It looks phenomenal. It has the very best environmental protection of *any* LSP I've ever used, be it wax or sealant. It is by *far* the easiest-to-clean LSP I've ever used. And for those of you that follow my car washing theories, you know how much weight I put on that particular quality. Vintage's durability isn't the best, but it is certainly not bad at all when compared to other carnauba-based LSP's. The cost per tub will average out to 78 bucks each over my life time, which is reasonable for a high-end carnauba. I get to bequeathe the refill rights to an heir, who will also get refill rights for life.

I do not regret buying Vintage one bit.

And watching Vintage bead and repel water (which it does better than any other LSP I've seen) is a fun past time, too.

Vintage is right for some, wrong for others. Does it *really* need to be more complicated than that?

Jakerooni · 07-03-09, 10:42

SB I'm not sure if that is somehow supposed to discredit my statement but to me it actually supports my point 110%. I'm glad you find it to be a great wax (Which I never claimed it wasn't) and that you're more than happy with the purchase of it (again for the reasons I stated)

I do find it absoultly halraious that you get to hand down this wax per some agreement with Zymol (can you imagine that at the reading of the will.... Umm wax?? I get wax for my inheritence?? WT bloody F!?!?!?!?!!!!!) I would never consider wax as some sort of family herlium or anything. Glad Zymol thinks it's really that important. But in that regard I digress. To each their own. I stand by all my statements. It's a great wax but it's not greater than any other high end carnuba out there. especially that the cost difference margin. Most people will justify it in their own regards. And most will say it was a great purchase. (I mean you kind of really have too right?) I just don't think it's $1700+ better. Certianly dosen't add any value to the car it gets put on. Neither does any other wax. And I can go through a ton of C&B's and find absoultly flawless finishes from much cheaper wax.... From a hobbiest stance it's a great thing to have. but from a practical (and we all know zymol is far from practical) it dosen't make any sense... But again to each their own.. Dosen't effect me any if people go out and buy it and are happy with it. Kudo's to everyone that has.