new & improved PO106ff

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

If more people could learn that sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on it's all cool. I've been married for almost 13 years. I say OJ did it and my wife says he didn't. We have two kids and couldn't be happier.

Are you proposing to me?

[lecchilo]

Originally Posted by SpoiledMan

If more people could learn that sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on it's all cool. I've been married for almost 13 years. I say OJ did it and my wife says he didn't. We have two kids and couldn't be happier.

haha 6 years here (not married, but feels like it) and I know exactly what you mean... except most of the time you talk to yourself and agree to disagree, then have to mouth out the words "yes honey, you're right"

Originally Posted by TH0001

Are you proposing to me?

I also couldn't help but see "married for 13 years" and " 2 kids, couldn't be happier" as sarcasm and a proposal

[SpoiledMan]

You guys crack me up. Todd is likely well, a guy and lacks the necessary parts for us to "hook up."

[Denzil]

Wow, didn't expect to come back to this thread with Todd proposing to Chris. Interesting thread indeed... LoL.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Denzil

Wow, didn't expect to come back to this thread with Todd proposing to Chris. Interesting thread indeed... LoL.

Just to clarify, I didn't propose to Chris. I asked if he was proposing to me.

[shine]

Hmm... proposals and filling. Awesome combination for a thread.

It's great to know what products are capable of and am very thankful for those that take the time to discover, fix, or reduce the problem, and then let everyone know.

[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by D&D Auto Detail

You guys definitely did. Reading all those posts from you and Ryan brought my polishing to a whole new level. I know I would of returned cars that were not in the condition I had thought if it wasnt for all those posts about the correct finishing techniques and Menzerna's filling problems. I know a lot of us are very thankful for that.

Exactly. Those posts brought my polishing abilities to a whole new level, too. It's too bad that several people had to bear the brunt of some very nasty statements (Todd and company), but their efforts taught us all sooo much. It also put a very bright light on the true colors of certain other people in the detailing community, especially those in the product distribution and importing business.

[Dave1]

Originally Posted by TH0001

Also I am stung because I was the first person to post that Menzerna fills

Todd, can you tell me what product specifically is in 106FF that fills......?

Thanks......

[Accumulator]

Originally Posted by lecchilo

While I haven't experienced any long term marring coming back (I really don't think the testing for this has been consistent because you never know, even with great washing techniques you MIGHT be doing something to the finish... I guess the only way to find out is to do it on some garage queen which won't get any sort of dirt on it ...

Let me post my experience. This is just for info purposes and is *NOT* a slam at anybody or anything. I don't have a dog is this fight as I have never used 106FF and don't plan to, and I certainly don't care if others use it or not. OK, disclaimer over...

My Denali XL was detailed by a *VERY* good pro (and a member here). Final steps were 106FF by rotary folowed by 106FF by PC. Waxed with Collinite. Looked super, no problems. It then sat in the corner of my shop for months while I drove my beater-Blazer instead. No wash, no use, nothing; it just sat except for a few brief errands and whenever I moved it around/outside. When it was outside it continued to look super...no holograms, that's for sure. The Collinite was still 100%, everything looked exactly like it did when I first parked it save for a light layer of dust.

*EXCEPT* that a few months later I sold the Blazer, and when I pulled the Denali XL out into the sun to start using it.....it had holograms that absolutely were not visible previously.

I washed it (no, I didn't induce any marring ) and the Collinite was still beading just like new. I was surprised that the holograms appeared even though the LSP was still OK. Over the next few weeks even more holograms started to appear, until it finally because obvious that I had to redo the vehicle. Based on the difficulty I had in doing said correction, some of the previously hidden holograms seemed to be quite severe, the sort of thing I wouldn't expect to be so well hidden for so long no matter what.

Based on the above, I can't help but think that the 106FF does a fair amount of concealing, even when used by a good detailer. Would a solvent wipe-down have helped (AFAIK he didn't do that), I dunno But this was a whole lot of concealing that lasted for months.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Dave1

Todd, can you tell me what product specifically is in 106FF that fills......?

Thanks......

No I cannot. But I can tell you the rep in England mentioned that the 106 series uses a waxy lubricant and that each product uses an oil in water emulsion (most likely mineral oil, from my understanding). I can tell you that mineral oil will mask defects by itself.

Furthermore I can tell you enough (more then 50 people I believe) have made comments regarding Menzerna filling, and that should be enough, esp. when the names of the detailers who have stated this are amongst the highest in regard and guys I look up too.

I think its more important to acknowledge the problem exists but I doubt that will happen.

[TH0001]

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Let me post my experience. This is just for info purposes and is *NOT* a slam at anybody or anything. I don't have a dog is this fight as I have never used 106FF and don't plan to, and I certainly don't care if others use it or not. OK, disclaimer over...

My Denali XL was detailed by a *VERY* good pro (and a member here). Final steps were 106FF by rotary folowed by 106FF by PC. Waxed with Collinite. Looked super, no problems. It then sat in the corner of my shop for months while I drove my beater-Blazer instead. No wash, no use, nothing; it just sat except for a few brief errands and whenever I moved it around/outside. When it was outside it continued to look super...no holograms, that's for sure. The Collinite was still 100%, everything looked exactly like it did when I first parked it save for a light layer of dust.

*EXCEPT* that a few months later I sold the Blazer, and when I pulled the Denali XL out into the sun to start using it.....it had holograms that absolutely were not visible previously.
I washed it (no, I didn't induce any marring ) and the Collinite was still beading just like new. I was surprised that the holograms appeared even though the LSP was still OK. Over the next few weeks even more holograms started to appear, until it finally because obvious that I had to redo the vehicle. Based on the difficulty I had in doing said correction, some of the previously hidden holograms seemed to be quite severe, the sort of thing I wouldn't expect to be so well hidden for so long no matter what.
Based on the above, I can't help but think that the 106FF does a fair amount of concealing, even when used by a good detailer. Would a solvent wipe-down have helped (AFAIK he didn't do that), I dunno But this was a whole lot of concealing that lasted for months.

To me this is the NAIL in the COFFIN as far as this debate goes...

Jeff thinks your a liar and the detailer you used (the person you used is VERY high quality and posts amazing cars on here all the time, with outstanding results) isn't good enough for his products, BTW.

I should also add that almost all dark colored on the Mercedes lots have light hologramming. When my mother bought her Benz it looked really nice. With in a couple of months it was hologram city.. When I asked the dealership what they polished it with they where empahetic in the fact that they did not polish the car.

They even brought over there lead tech from the body shop (this guy is good actually) and he agreed they where buffer swirls in the paint that they where caused by high speed machines that seemed in areas to spin in circles (such as dynabrade air sanders). When we looked around the lot they noticed a lot of the cars (not even close to all I must add) that had been on the lot for a while had this wierd hologramming. The body shop is the only department that polishes paint for the dealership and once again he was certain that they did not polish any of the cars.

[Dave1]

Originally Posted by TH0001

No I cannot. But I can tell you the rep in England mentioned that the 106 series uses a waxy lubricant and that each product uses an oil in water emulsion (most likely mineral oil, from my understanding). I can tell you that mineral oil will mask defects by itself.

Furthermore I can tell you enough (more then 50 people I believe) have made comments regarding Menzerna filling, and that should be enough, esp. when the names of the detailers who have stated this are amongst the highest in regard and guys I look up too.

I think its more important to acknowledge the problem exists but I doubt that will happen.

Well Todd, I hear ya but, in a court of law.....you need a body.

Find out what's in Menzerna 106 that fills and you win your case.....

The manufacturer may not tell you for obvious reasons. IF lubricants "fill", test the lubricants. If it's something else, test that......

I'm used to seeing you break down your details to the bone with information and I always look forward to learning something from your efforts. Many here have seen the effects you first mentioned and it's probably a given that other companies have their secret formulas that are not open to the public to copy.....

My personal take:
Knowing that a wipe down may be necessary depending on the LSP, I personally don't get angry about a product that has excellent results in paint correction........

Have a good July 4th weekend.......