new & improved PO106ff - Page 3

zoomzoom mazda5 · 07-02-08, 10:32

This is getting interesting here, Thanks Rydawg on your comment!

jsilver6 · 07-02-08, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Whoops, sorry I got the name wrong. My apologies. And I do stand by my statements about how poorly the whole polish filling thing was handled, as well as product names and numbers. I'm not trying to start a flame war, as that was already well done last year about all of these issues.

Note that I have been nothing but a Menzerna supporter and avid user. I'm just very disappointed with how several things have been handled by your office. I am one of the many people who observed/observe on a daily basis how PO85RD and PO106FF *do* fill and mask defects. Whether it was intentional on Menzerna's part is moot. The fact is that it *does* occur, and your office's response was completely unprofessional and poorly handled. I'm not asking for a product formulation change; I *love* all of my Menz polishes, but it would be nice for Menz to say something like, "Yup, they do unintentionally mask defects, and here's what you can do to fix it..." instead of the name calling and denial that actually occured. Several of the people that were pretty much called liars by Menzerna are *very* well respected detailing professionals. *That* is the bad blood to which I refered.

For the record, nobody was called a liar. Menzerna will not make a statement that is false, even if suggested by a loyal customer.

P1et · 07-02-08, 11:19

I believe that Phil from Detailers Domain has been carrying this for a while, unless I am missing something?

SuperBee364 · 07-02-08, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsilver6

For the record, nobody was called a liar. Menzerna will not make a statement that is false, even if suggested by a loyal customer.

I'm not asking you to make a false statement, merely to acknowledge the obvious fact that the products do *unintentionally* mask defects, and the solution to it. It's a well-known fact. Menzerna's failure to recognize it doesn't help it's credibility.

lecchilo · 07-02-08, 11:49

Super I can see Silver's point in not releasing that statement because not every Menzerna user is knocking on their door saying the same thing. I'm not "taking a side" here, just pointing out why it is what it is.

As for FMJ, I can see everyone's disappointment because even with your last statement Silver, you didn't address this whatsoever...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsilver6

We manufacture and sell buffing compounds and polish to professionals and industrial customers.

Why not simply state here what it is and who makes it?

SuperBee364 · 07-02-08, 11:52

Before this goes out of control...

I apologize for bringing this dead horse up again to be beaten. I've held my tongue on this subject up until now, and I should have just kept holding it.

If you honestly believe that your office's response to this subject is truly in the best interest of Menzerna and it's customers, there is little I can do or say to change your mind. My only intention was to show you how some of your customers have viewed your response to this and other issues.

Many people have shown photographic proof of 85RD and 106FF filling/hiding defects. It's pretty hard to see them and wonder why Menzerna won't acknowledge the problem. I see this very thing happen *every time* I use both of these products. It's pretty frustrating (from a customer standpoint) to see this, and yet have Menzerna refuse to even acknowledge it happens.

Regardless, your response is, in your opinion, what is best for Menzerna and it's customers. I've said my peace, and won't say anything further.

grease · 07-02-08, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsilver6

For the record, nobody was called a liar. Menzerna will not make a statement that is false, even if suggested by a loyal customer.

Not specifically, no. But the impression from certain menz reps was given that the experienced detailers didnt know what they were doing at all, instead of observing the results and discussing solutions. 106ff hides and does a good job of it. And yet you keep saying its user error, instead of helping.

Its also not a simple solution to call distributors, when you will get 3 different answers from 3 different distributors. Im an avid Menz user and will continue to be, but you certainly do not do the brand any justice. Im not trying to start a flame war either, but Ive never had as much problems dealing with a brand as I have with Menz US.

bert31 · 07-02-08, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsilver6

For the record, nobody was called a liar. Menzerna will not make a statement that is false, even if suggested by a loyal customer.

Why do I have a feeling Todd (TH0001) will be commenting on this thread soon??

jsilver6 · 07-02-08, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecchilo

Super I can see Silver's point in not releasing that statement because not every Menzerna user is knocking on their door saying the same thing. I'm not "taking a side" here, just pointing out why it is what it is.

As for FMJ, I can see everyone's disappointment because even with your last statement Silver, you didn't address this whatsoever...

Why not simply state here what it is and who makes it?

Ivan, a forum could be a good place to freely exchange information and experiences amongst detailers. However no one is under any obligation to divulge all proprietary information. This is especially true for manufacturers that must maintain confidentiality of formula and marketing decisions. To do otherwise would be irresponsible and foolish.

bert31 · 07-02-08, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsilver6

If someone insists that a product in some way performs differently than designed and they wish to maintain that belief, then so be it. I can only hope that their skill level improves to match the quality of the product.

If the filling claims were only being made by a small handful of posters, I too would probably not worry too much about them. However, this is not a small handful of posters, it is a fair number on just about every detailing board I read (9 at my last count) which would make me think it would be in Menzerna's interest to figure out what these detailers are doing (if it is user error as you claim) and offer solutions to the issue through these numerous message boards.

I would be scared to guess how many people have started using SIP and Nano Polish simply due to the recommendations of Todd (TH0001) due to the reputation he has on this and other boards. A rep from Menzerna stating that his skill level is not up to par probably does not help in ensuring such goodwill (and free advertising) will continue on this board on others.

I would argue the same goodwill is achieved by Optimum Polymer Technologies due to Scott's (Scottwax) endorsement of Optimum polishes, No Rinse Wash and Shine, and other products due to his reputation on this board. If Scott were to mention in a thread that he was having difficulty with an Optimum product, I feel pretty safe that Dr. Ghodoussi would not just dismiss this as incompetence. If anything, he (or someone else at Optimum) would be researching why the difficulty is coming up and how to resolve the issue people are having and communicate such resolutions.

SuperBee364 · 07-02-08, 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert31

If the filling claims were only being made by a small handful of posters, I too would probably not worry too about them. However, this is not a small handful of posters, it is a fair number on just about every detailing board I read (9 at my last count) which would make me think it would be in Menzerna's interest to figure out what these detailers are doing (if it is user error as you claim) and offer solutions to the issue through these numerous message boards.

I would be scared to guess how many people have started using SIP and Nano Polish simply due to the recommendations of Todd (TH0001) due to the reputation he has on this and other boards. A rep from Menzerna stating that his skill level is not up to par probably does not help in ensuring such goodwill (and free advertising) will continue on this board on others.

I would argue the same goodwill is achieved by Optimum Polymer Technologies due to Scott's (Scottwax) endorsement of Optimum polishes, No Rinse Wash and Shine, and other products due to his reputation on this board. If Scott were to mention in a thread that he was having difficulty with an Optimum product, I feel pretty safe that Dr. Ghodoussi would not just dismiss this as incompetence. If anything, he (or someone else at Optimum) would be researching why the difficulty is coming up and how to resolve the issue people are having and communicate such resolutions.

Very well written post, bert31.

bert31 · 07-02-08, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Very well written post, bert31.

Thanks. I hope Jeff Silver does not take my post as a jab at him, because it was not meant to be. I have never met nor conversed with Jeff and I certainly don't know enough about him to have a positive or negative view about him like many on this board. Saying that, I will give Jeff the benefit of the doubt that he is a good guy to deal with (despite how some on here feel) and simply made a comment or two that were taken the wrong way by members here. I give Jeff (and anyone else for that matter) the benefit of the doubt because I hope others will do the same for me when I do something which causes people to get pissy.

I understand that Jeff's job does not allow him the time to spend all day searching all of the numerous detailing boards dismissing every little misconception made about Menzerna products. However, the filling issue has been a fairly prominent topic on numerous boards for a while now and probably should be addressed by someone Menzerna if so many people are experiencing it. Being defensive about it and saying people experiencing filling don't have the skills to use the product is probably not the best way to handle the situation from a customer service stand point.