Should the government bail-out include domestic automakers? - Page 32

Len_A · 12-17-08, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerjunky

chrysler shuts down for a month and uaw employees get 95% pay to sit at home....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So what? Japan still has "lifetime employment" See:
Japanese Multinational Firms and the Future of the Lifetime Employment System

FlowRate · 12-17-08, 05:45

Just remember, those jobs that (hypothetically) people kept won't mean anything when their currency isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

Mr. Clean · 12-18-08, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len_A

They were working overtime because as gas prices came down, pickup sales went back up. Now GM's demand has dropped as Ford's new F-150 is taking a bigger chunk of the light truck market - Ford dealers are asking for more inventory to sell.
...

I can't buy that. Too much inventory sitting on dealers lots now. My nearest Ford dealer has a glut of '08 F-150s with '09s sitting beside them. No, I have serious doubts that GM had such a need for units like produced in Arlington that overtime was required to fill those orders.

BTW, mention was made earlier about dealers being reluctant to make capital improvements. The dealership mentioned above is certainly going against that grain. He has just recently announced a major overhaul of both his new and used car physical plant sites in spite of the current downturn. I hope his "can do" spirit is rewarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len_A

So what? Japan still has "lifetime employment"

Kinda like our own federal judges...

Len_A · 12-18-08, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

I can't buy that. Too much inventory sitting on dealers lots now. My nearest Ford dealer has a glut of '08 F-150s with '09s sitting beside them. No, I have serious doubts that GM had such a need for units like produced in Arlington that overtime was required to fill those orders.

BTW, mention was made earlier about dealers being reluctant to make capital improvements. The dealership mentioned above is certainly going against that grain. He has just recently announced a major overhaul of both his new and used car physical plant sites in spite of the current downturn. I hope his "can do" spirit is rewarded.

Kinda like our own federal judges...

Yea far as that dealer,

F-150 - you can buy it or not buy it - that dealer needs to get on the phone and see if he can trade his inventory. Other dealers are running out of F-150's and trading across state lines to get them.

Only two Ford plants coming back from usual Christmas break are Dearborn Truck Plant (F-150) and and the Kansas City Truck Plant (F-150 again, and Escape, Mariner, & Tribute). Those two plants come back right after New Years Day and Dearborn Truck is supposed to have overtime scheduled already. As of December 1, Ford sales are in the best shape, with a 67 day supply of F-150's ('08 & '09 combined). Dodge has 127 Day supply of Ram, and GM has Silverado at 96 day supply and Sierra at 103 days. Toyota is equally screwed as GM - 98 day supply of Tundra. Nissan is even worse at 117 day supply.

65 top 67 day supply is considered good. Over that is a negative, by degrees, especially when you go over 90 days.

Mr. Clean · 12-18-08, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len_A

...F-150 - you can buy it or not buy it - that dealer needs to get on the phone and see if he can trade his inventory. Other dealers are running out of F-150's and trading across state lines to get them.
...

To clarify, the Arlington, TX plant is a GM plant. Not Ford. My questioning was regarding the need for overtime to produce GM SUVs. Based on your numbers my suspicions might be confirmed.

Len_A · 12-18-08, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

To clarify, the Arlington, TX plant is a GM plant. Not Ford. My questioning was regarding the need for overtime to produce GM SUVs. Based on your numbers my suspicions might be confirmed.

I understand - I think you're reservations on any GM overtime are spot on. I think Ford has it all over everyone on light trucks right now. I know a few Tundra, Silverado, or Ram fans might not agree, but the sales figures seem to speak for themselves. I had a chance to check out the '09 F-150. Damn, if gas prices stay low enough, I think it will sell well enough to help Ford out enough to see them through 2009. They make a lot of profit per F-150. I couldn't believe the fit and finish on that truck, was better than I've seen on a car or truck in a long time.

Len_A · 12-18-08, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

To clarify, the Arlington, TX plant is a GM plant. Not Ford. My questioning was regarding the need for overtime to produce GM SUVs. Based on your numbers my suspicions might be confirmed.

And I read that F-150 may end the year as the number 1 selling vehicle for the 2008, too. If gas prices stay low, small cars are not going to sell as well trucks...again.

FlowRate · 12-18-08, 10:46

Because gas prices will never go back up.... ******* Americans.

(no, I don't mean you, I'm sure you realize that they'll go back up, especially when our fiat currency collapses)

Len_A · 12-18-08, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlowRate

Because gas prices will never go back up.... ******* Americans.

(no, I don't mean you, I'm sure you realize that they'll go back up, especially when our fiat currency collapses)

Whenever this world wide recession ends, gas prices will start to go up just because of supply & demand. My best guess is that if they go up fast enough, they'll trigger another recession, and the cycle continues.

Mr. Clean · 12-18-08, 11:42

LenA, I've seen some photos of the new '09 F-150 on one of the F-150 forums. It is a beautiful truck. Though that is not a good way to describe a truck.

What struck me as odd was the number of people who were truly interested in paying $40k+ for a "pretty" truck (specifically the Platinum trim). I can now say I've seen a "cowboy cadillac". I like a truck that is comfortable, not spartan on the interior, but one that is going to be put to work hauling (in the bed) a variety of loads from furniture to landscape materials to hunting and fishing gear.

Len_A · 12-18-08, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

LenA, I've seen some photos of the new '09 F-150 on one of the F-150 forums. It is a beautiful truck. Though that is not a good way to describe a truck.

What struck me as odd was the number of people who were truly interested in paying $40k+ for a "pretty" truck (specifically the Platinum trim). I can now say I've seen a "cowboy cadillac". I like a truck that is comfortable, not spartan on the interior, but one that is going to be put to work hauling (in the bed) a variety of loads from furniture to landscape materials to hunting and fishing gear.

Yea, I'm with you on that. A truck is a work vehicle. It figures that as soon as gas prices were down all the urban cowboys would come out of the woodwork and start looking at loaded trucks again. The Platinum trim line, BTW, replaces the Lincoln Mark LT. That urban cowboy/cadillac cowboy is exactly the target market Toyota said they were going after with their new Tundra when it came out. I think Ford one-upped them in that department, and still managed to make one tough truck. I like the work features they added - like the box side steps and the tailgate steps. Yet they still added features like the voice activated nav system and Sync. I know a few contractors that, when work picks back up, want to get into the new F-150 and are looking forward to those features.

Next summer to fall should be interesting - that's when I heard Ford was adding a twin turbo direct injection 3.5 liter Ecoboost V-6 to the F-150 powertrain line up.

And I agree - it is a beautiful truck - my wife normally dislikes trucks. When she saw the new F-150, she said that was the first good looking truck she's ever seen.

MotorCity · 12-18-08, 12:38

Just got called into my managers office to find out I (along with many others) will be laid for January....