Should the government bail-out include domestic automakers? - Page 30

Len_A · 12-11-08, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inzane

I share your dislike for Toyota products. The last few years at the annual auto shows I haven't even bothered to cross through the Toyota booth. Now THAT is a boring product line-up.

I am mildly more interested in Lexus, but not much. It's highly unlikely I'd choose an IS over a BMW 3 or an Infiniti G. There's just so little sporty DNA in Toyota products these days, across the board.

I spent a half a day in an Avalon, and that afternoon, spent three hours driving a Ford Flex Limited with AWD. Had I been in the market for a new car, I'd have taken the Flex in heart beat. Ride and handling were better than most big, main stream sedans (and Flex is a big crossover), the fuel economy was comparable to my Mercury Montego and better than the Avalon I drove in the morning, and it felt solid, as good as any Honda or Toyota I've ever test driven. SYNC took me all of one minute to master. Paired my Bluetooth phone and copied my call history and phone book in a minute (I was just pulling out of the dealership, when I remembered to go back, ask for the keys, and delete them from the Flex's SYNC memory). I took a USB flash drive with about twenty songs - SYNC worked as advertised, so does the Sirius Travel Link. Nav system, with and without the voice controls, was also flawless.

The Avalon's nav system was just as good as the Ford Flex, and the Bluetooth worked fine, but there was there was nothing special about it.

As reliable as Consumer Reports has been rating Ford, and my own experience, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ford.

Mortil · 12-11-08, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len_A

Sweden is aiding their automakers:

Kentucky.com Business - Wire

Yes. the gouverment here is starting a company to develope better engines .

so far that ive seen the FORD & GM brands has only been bad for our swedish brands (Volvo & Saab) Saab has had their XWD ready for 10 years and GM told them NO all the time and Ethanol engines is their strong side specially with turbos .

volvo has been going with profit until now. and ford has taken all the money and not helpt volvo at all . its more like volvo helpt ford. (the worst thing we could done was sell those brands to the american companies..

sweden is a country thats stands for Green energy and Friendly to the enviorment. like the never engine that GM put in Saab 9-5 griffin around 99-03 what a crap . how do you really think that kind of **** is going to work in a land that thinking about Enviorment and good quality ?

i hope the swedish automakers get a new swedish owner and get rid of GM and Ford.

and i can only quote our Minister of Economic Affairs said on the news today . the american owners of saab and volvo is not getting a cent of this money. they had their fingers in the jam-jar too long now.

but i do hope the US industry will make it. i hope we all will . Economical problems like this is not fun for anyone

Mr. Clean · 12-11-08, 01:52

Mortil, I understand your frustration. I own a pre-Ford Volvo, '96 850 GLT, 180K+ miles. My first Volvo, and purchased new. One of the best paint jobs of any vehicle I've owned since a '65 Ford Galaxie. The Volvo seats are the most comfortable, supportive, rugged seating ever. Since Ford took up Volvo I hadn't seen 1 vehicle I would trade my 850 for until the C30 arrived on the scene.

Maintaining these vehicles to spec is not exactly cheap, but I must say that after almost 13 years my dealership experience has been mostly outstanding. With the exception of <12 month period I have had the same service writer for my entire ownership period.

I don't know the specifics of the transaction, but I got the feeling that Volvo was the one who went courting, not content with their small market share. If that is accurate, then it proves the axiom "Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it."

From people that I know who owned pre and post GM Saabs they feel the earlier Saabs were the better, more reliable vehicles.

Mortil · 12-11-08, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

Mortil, I understand your frustration. I own a pre-Ford Volvo, '96 850 GLT, 180K+ miles. My first Volvo, and purchased new. One of the best paint jobs of any vehicle I've owned since a '65 Ford Galaxie. The Volvo seats are the most comfortable, supportive, rugged seating ever. Since Ford took up Volvo I hadn't seen 1 vehicle I would trade my 850 for until the C30 arrived on the scene.

Maintaining these vehicles to spec is not exactly cheap, but I must say that after almost 13 years my dealership experience has been mostly outstanding. With the exception of <12 month period I have had the same service writer for my entire ownership period.

I don't know the specifics of the transaction, but I got the feeling that Volvo was the one who went courting, not content with their small market share. If that is accurate, then it proves the axiom "Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it."

From people that I know who owned pre and post GM Saabs they feel the earlier Saabs were the better, more reliable vehicles.

nice . the 850 is a nice mashine . i was thinking about buying one but it went on a Saab 9000Aero instead. (mutch cheaper insurance) my choise was between an Volvo 855 T-yellow 250 bhp it was the modell that kicked the *** of volvo 850R

my english is a bit bad but. volvo has relly really good engineers that can make things go out to production because volvo went with profit every year.

but saab the other way has extremely good engineers but the has no money.

ive seen stuff that nog came out "on the floor" thats amazing. like engines so efficient and powerfull but still low consumption that one GM stopped before it came out of the engineering lab. to bad to bad.

for my self i dont mind the economical crisis . BUT! i really really didnt like to see grown people running out from offices crying @ volvo becaus they where fired this week (4000 of them)

i hope the whole Autoindustry will make it and thats fast. if the large companies in US for example goes bye bye . then where screwed .

i dont like that .

and hey . if you intend to keep the 850 and do regular services . i guarantee it will run 180k miles more

i know people done 500 000 miles with theirs :P

Mr. Clean · 12-11-08, 02:41

I agree that the economy globally is looking somewhat dismal. Layoffs and cutbacks everywhere you turn. No hope for a bailout for most of those workers. The unemployed gets the headlines, but there are many more under-employed people and they rarely get even a mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortil

...and hey . if you intend to keep the 850 and do regular services . i guarantee it will run 180k miles more

i know people done 500 000 miles with theirs :P

I'm struggling with that thought now. Even more than I, the Wife l-o-v-e-s that car.

BTW, you English looks pretty darned good to me.

I've read (or tried to) posts from people who claim English as their primary language who don't do that well.

Len_A · 12-11-08, 06:19

I get a kick out of the way Car & Driver tend to phrase things.

10 Lies Pinhead Legislators Believe About the Auto Industry - Car News/Latest News

jfelbab · 12-11-08, 07:41

Grim news tonight. Looks like the bailout deal fell apart, at east for the time being. Not a lot of time left before the congress closes down for the holidays.

WASHINGTON – A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers has collapsed in the Senate after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was "terribly disappointed" about the demise of an emerging bipartisan deal to rescue Detroit's Big Three.

Source: Auto bailout talks collapse over union wages - Yahoo! News

Mortil · 12-12-08, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

I agree that the economy globally is looking somewhat dismal. Layoffs and cutbacks everywhere you turn. No hope for a bailout for most of those workers. The unemployed gets the headlines, but there are many more under-employed people and they rarely get even a mention.

I'm struggling with that thought now. Even more than I, the Wife l-o-v-e-s that car.

BTW, you English looks pretty darned good to me.

I've read (or tried to) posts from people who claim English as their primary language who don't do that well.

thanx

dont know what the 850 is in pricing over there. ?
i do have a 850 2.5T standing in my garage at this moment

it needs new brakes and a new turbo. it has run soon 350 000 miles . i will be using that for my fun to destroy car now i think.. the car market has made an U turn here. all prices is going doooooooown .

also heard about the Senate decision this morning . not good not good. i hope they think it over AGAIN ..

Len_A · 12-12-08, 09:40

Payback can be a b*tch. Former Detroit Tiger and Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning was told to get lost:

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http://www.gibraltartrade.com/press.htm

Len_A · 12-12-08, 12:42

My Way News - White House readies new rescue for auto industry

Len_A · 12-12-08, 01:26

THE AUTO INDUSTRY BAILOUT

GM says it rejected bankruptcy after hiring advisers

Automotive News
December 12, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT (Reuters) -- General Motors hired outside advisers to weigh bankruptcy, but the board determined that a filing was not an option, a GM spokesman said on Thursday.

"We said all along that the board had considered bankruptcy and had concluded it was not a viable option," GM spokesman Tony Cervone said. "The board continues to meet frequently and to weigh all options and has retained appropriate advisers for all contingencies."

GM is lobbying for a share of a $14 billion auto-rescue package stalled in Congress and has warned it could run short of cash by the end of this month without an emergency federal loan.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner, who also chairs the automaker's board, has said repeatedly a Chapter 11 filing would result in liquidation because consumers would shun products sold by a company reorganizing under court protection.

The hiring of outside legal and restructuring advisers by GM was reported today by the Wall Street Journal. The newspaper said GM had retained Harvey Miller, a bankruptcy specialist at the New York law firm Weil Gotshal & Manges LP.

The newspaper also said GM retained restructuring advisers, including William Repko of Evercore Partners, Arthur Newman of Blackstone Group and Jay Alix.

GM's Cervone declined to name the outside firms hired by the company's board.

Earlier this month, Chrysler LLC confirmed it retained law firm Jones Day as bankruptcy counsel and had engaged other advisers to provide a comprehensive analysis of its options.

Chrysler said it hired Jones Day in response to the congressional hearings in November in which U.S. automakers were asked to study why bankruptcy was not a better alternative for restructuring than the loans requested from the government.

The review determined the impact from a Chrysler bankruptcy would devastate the domestic auto industry, the company said.

The cash crisis is most acute at GM and Chrysler. Rival Ford Motor Co, which has a stronger cash position, has asked U.S. lawmakers for a standby $9 billion line of credit to protect it from a worsening of the U.S. auto market or the failure of GM or Chrysler.

Len_A · 12-13-08, 02:08

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