[SuperBee364]

Originally Posted by Less

Basically for me, it comes down to this:

There is NO SUCH THING as a marring-free wash. I simply don't believe any product that makes such claims. I also don't believe anyone who says that he NEVER swirls a car when he washes it.

While it's true that certain products and techniques can minimize the potential for such defects. And it's also true that some people can produce marring free washes once, twice, ten times, or even one hundred times. But we're all human beings, and we make mistakes sometimes.

Certain products or techniques can compensate for SOME of those potential mistakes, but never ALL of them. And if you look at different wash products, in general, you'll see that as products are able to compensate for more mistakes, they become more expensive.

Just look at Microfiber. For decades, people used cotton or terry cloth towels to buff paint. And there is nothing to say that a careful detailer couldn't use those products exclusively with good results today. However, microfiber reduces the risk, and shrinks the margin of error involved in buffing. In order to do that, it takes more engineering, better materials, more care in manufacturing, higher quality standards, and therefore, more money. Same goes for wash mitts, brushes, or just about anything else. Granted there are always exceptions, but generally speaking, higher price usually equals higher quality.

For me, I think ONR is the opposite. It costs more than traditional soap. It takes longer to wash (and time is money if you do this professionally). You have to be even more careful than normal. The margin of error is smaller. So I think that money/swirl ratio is going the wrong way.

If it's 35 degrees outside, and for some reason, I absolutely MUST wash my car, ONR is the product of choice. But other than that, i just don't have a use for it.

If the same person washes 100 cars using ONR, and 100 cars using a traditional wash, I'll bet dollars for doughnuts that the ONR cars will have far more wash-induced marring than the traditionally washed cars.

I totally agree with the first bolded statement. I think that even the most gentle ONR wash in the world still produces some marring on a very, *very* small level. But eventually, after many washes, it would become visible. However, it would be so shallow in the clear coat, that a simple jeweling with something even as mild as FPII would get it out.

The second bolded statement, I dunno... How is the conventional wash done? Is it an Accumulator conventional wash? A Supe conventional wash? A two bucket? One? None? Makes all the difference in the world.

But I still think the only way to not mar paint is to not touch it.